DIY philosophy

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CHH

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I had a PM basically saying not to give advise on a particular subject 'cause anything can happen. I thought that maybe it's best to share a general philosophy and see what folks thought.

To me, a DIY is like a teenager and sex. They have the parts so they're going to do it. If you just say "no" they're going to know you're crazy and go off on their own. All you can do is try and guide them in a good direction. We have to accept that they may hurt themselves and others. Educate them on the dangers while accepting free will is the only sane solution.

Well, what do you folks think?
 

Leejosepho

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CHH said:
I had a PM basically saying not to give advise on a particular subject 'cause anything can happen.

What ever happened to freedom of speech?!

Ah, but this world has all kinds of self-appointed cops ...

CHH said:
To me, a DIY is like a teenager and sex ...

Respectfully asked: Do you really assume all DIYers are either juveniles, immature, lacking in wisdom, inexperienced and/or just looking for jollies?

Until just recently, I had not known this forum as a DIY forum. Rather, it seemed to be a place where professionals could answer questions and even offer services at will ... but I kept posting anyway.

Maybe Terry should have a disclaimer somewhere (or maybe he already does) to let readers know the opinions shared and advice given here (including "Shh!") are not necessarily those of the management and staff.
 

Cookie

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I agree with you Lee. People are smarter than you think. I may not be able to do brain surgery but, I can think, lol. Oh, Sex Ed is important I think now they start in about the 5th grade. Rightfully so. But, your well-intended analogy was just a bit off regarding intelliegence. Teenagers brain are misplaced. :D
 

CHH

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leejosepho said:
Respectfully asked: Do you really assume all DIYers are either juveniles, immature, lacking in wisdom, inexperienced and/or just looking for jollies?

I actually meant it fairly literally. If a DIY can get the parts then they will use them. Anybody can shout out "NO" but it's really pretty pointless.

I'm a DIY and I usually say that I never save money but I learn a heck of a lot, my tool collection grows, and I get things done the way I want them to be. I see nothing wrong with helping other folks out with suggestions but I expect folks to be responsible for their own actions and to think about their particular circumstances.
 

Pewterpower

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If you gave bad advice to someone here, then it would have been quickly and professionally pointed out. And others would have learned from it.
I would take that PM with a grain of salt.......
Most of the DIYers around here leave the serious stuff for the pros to handle anyway. Besides, we do most of the asking..........not the answering!!
 

Verdeboy

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I think the point that CHH is making is the same point we've pretty much agreed upon--using language like "going with the flow" of this forum, which is composed of a mixture of pros and DIYers

If people are gonna do something themselves, and if they are wise enough to post a question on this forum, then they should have all the info possible to either go ahead with the project or call in a pro. But it should be their call--not ours.

"I had a PM basically saying not to give advise on a particular subject 'cause anything can happen."

Let me guess. Was the particular subject electrical? Was it noneother than the infamous Joe Tedesco who offered up this sage advice?
 
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Mike Swearingen

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I am not a pro in any professional building trade discipline, just an avid DIYer since I was 11 and I'm 64 now (that's 53 years or 7.5 in dog years +/-, but I digress or regress, whichever...in any case I'm old). The point is, I'm old enough to know what I know and can do and more importantly, what I don't know and can't do.
Being a jack(leg)-of-all-trades, one of my favorite hobbies for years has been visting DIY websites and trying to help those who maybe know a little less than I do. I currently have more than 14,000 posts total as a member or volunteer moderator on various DIY websites.
I've made my share of mistakes, like everyone else...including a few pros...but they have always been promptly corrected by someone, pros and DIYers alike.
More often than not, you can tell about how much a DIYer knows or doesn't know by the questions they ask or the comments they make. Most will listen to advice, but as in any walk of life, there's always that % that won't listen to anyone that disagrees with them. I've learned not to worry about those people, and just to help those that I can.
In many cases the best advice is to tell them to "hire a pro" or get a knowledgeable, experienced DIY friend to help them, and then for them to watch what they do and how they do it. That's precisely how I learned to do most of the things that I know how to do...osmosis and reading.
I learn something every time I visit a DIY website. Never too old for that. LOL
Mike
 

Leejosepho

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GrumpyPlumber said:
I'm fine with a few hints on replacing a faucet, but when someone's looking to service their own boiler...are you sure they know the difference between a 150/210 T&P and a 30 PR? between aluminum and steel vents? galvy and BM pipe? There are some things best to at least inform them it might be best to look for a professional, rather than allow them to feel confident about leaping into it.

Understood, and agreed. Nothing could cause me to tell a three-year-old how to load a gun or even how to put a worm on a hook. We already know what would happen to the round or the worm, but I want my grandchildren to live yet another day while the deer or fish are escaping their reach.

Mike Swearingen said:
More often than not, you can tell about how much a DIYer knows or doesn't know by the questions they ask or the comments they make. Most will listen to advice, but as in any walk of life, there's always that % that won't listen to anyone that disagrees with them. I've learned not to worry about those people, and just to help those that I can.

Yes ... and sometimes I put information out there in such a way that only the intuitive can really make much use of it. For folks with a certain "knack" or whatever, a few pointers or a little advice can be sufficient when the work to be done does not actually require technical training.

Mike Swearingen said:
In many cases ...

... or at least in some ...

Mike Swearingen said:
... the best advice is to tell them to "hire a pro" or get a knowledgeable, experienced DIY friend to help them, and then for them to watch what they do and how they do it.

Agreed ... and that is how I first learned to put a worm on a hook long before bumping into the much-higher-tech world of preparing a ballyhoo for trolling outside the reef. For something like that, it can be best to just go hire a boat and crew.
 

jay_sfb

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Mike Swearingen said:
...since I was 11 and I'm 64 now (that's 53 years or 7.5 in dog years +/-...).
I think it's the other way around -- x7 not /7, or ~370 dog years...

Mike Swearingen said:
I've made my share of mistakes ... but they have always been promptly corrected...
Just doing my part to save you from yourself :D.

Jay
 

Cookie

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Educate them by all means in everything. I agree Terry.
Take kids fishing and target shooting. We started our boys young because guns are so much in our society that we wanted them to be safe with them or around them plus, not have that curiosity kids will have.
Now they are in their 20's and can someday teach their children the safety to it. Just the way our family has always been. I was shooting both guns and bows before I could drive.
 

Mike Swearingen

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Jay,
I think that I was right the way that I meant it, I just didnt say it the way that I meant it...a dog that is 7.5 human years is 53+/- in dog years, or is a 53-year-old dog really 370 dog years old, or am I 370 dog years old?
I bet every other old dog besides me out there is confused, too.
O.K., so I'm senile. Help me before I kill again. LOL
Mike
 

Geniescience

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CHH said:
... If a DIY can get the parts then they will use them. Anybody can shout out "NO" but ....
i used to feel alone, isolated, when I'd post saying something along the lines of, "here is info, but beware and please see that you may not be qualified even after getting this info into your head," but now that there are several people all willing to post to say in their own way, that the person inquiring may need professional help too even though they are now armed with parts and a bit of the manual, I feel 100% more comfortable pointing people to info and telling them a bit of what i know.

Since there are a lot of other people willing to post saying respectfully that the person asking for knowledge ought not to conclude that he knows enough now to do it all alone. They are also willing to say, "those parts you just bought, installed and photographed are the wrong versions, although they look almost the same, they won't do the job in the long term and that is bad"

Congratulations, CHH you are now at full Member status, no longer deemed a Junior by the system software.

David
 

Backglass

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Cookie said:
People are smarter than you think. I may not be able to do brain surgery but, I can think, lol.

And plumbing is not brain surgery. <DUCKS!> :D

I do understand the thinking though. I am in the software business and I see everyday people who get into all kinds of jams because they thought they could just fix there machine themselves instead of calling for service. ;)
 

CHH

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Well there have been many points of view shared. The majority seem to fall in favor of providing info and cautions. That's a position I'm totally comfortable with. If we're going to try to prevent every possible negative outcome in life we'd all be quivering masses of protoplasm unable to make a move for fear it would injure someone.

I'll stick with giving advise as I see fit and trusting the DIY on the other end is a reasonably intelligent and sane individual whom takes final responsibility for their actions.

Thanks for the comments.
 

Cookie

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Well, Terry knowledge is never wasted.
Maybe, some folks here should do what I am doing. I am taking a course through our community college and public safety on Emergency Tech Services. EMT. At the end of the course their a state cerficiation test if you want. Which I do.

It covers topics with life threatening emergencies, such as extrication from an automobile ( which a few years back my son and I experienced) when a car rolled down a hill and flipped ontop of the other right infront of our eyes. It was bad. The course also covers, childbirth ( never again here, lol) god forbid electrical shock, heart attack, stroke, kind of you name it. Even if you never use it to pay the bills, you never know when that knowledge might come in handy. I am going to use it to volunteer for my fire dept. I live 5 minutes from one.

The course is only 75.00 bucks.
 

lars

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This is a great site. It is up to me to judge the advice given. I am a diyer. I do projects because I like to and I know that it will be done the way I want it to be done. I bounce things on this site to confirm what I am thinking, to understand a problem or find a solution that I did not think of.
If the advice I get makes my head spin then I am in over my head. My father in law is 75 with no formal training but could do anything. I asked him how. He said he just watched people and asked questions. I have taken this advice to heart. Plumbing definitely has a set of rules which can not be violated without dire consequences.
I am an anesthesiologist and get asked questions all of the time. I am happy to educate people because most have no idea what it is that I do and are very scared. It takes me little time and educated curious people make better patients( of course not always).
Continue the advice , this a valuable site. In fact , I may put a post in to ask a question that 2 plumbers have not been able to solve.
 

Cookie

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Hi Lars,

Asking questions is always a plus in anything. I know when my son was operated on I asked so many questions that I felt horrible for taking so much of his time up but, he put a jittery mom to ease. We had to meet many times with him over the course of the years that we became friends. He told us, not one question was wrong to ask, " ask away," he told us. It really helped.

I know the plumbers here would say, " ask away."
 

GrumpyPlumber

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Backglass said:
And plumbing is not brain surgery. <DUCKS!> :D

I do understand the thinking though. I am in the software business and I see everyday people who get into all kinds of jams because they thought they could just fix there machine themselves instead of calling for service. ;)


In C++ you have the STL, basic set of algorythms that any monkey can write a fully functional .exe in. They're all pre-written so all you have to do is reference them...define classes that you've written out using these algorythms within the "int main", being mindful not to forget the "#include" for each set and make sure you keep track when using dynamic memory vs static so as to avoid memory leaks.
Of course C++ has that silly little syntax thingy that newer OOP's don't give you such a hard time with, but all it takes is a simple online tutorial and VOILA!...your a software engineer.
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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In plumbing, anything related to gas is ris K at best. DIY'rs actually give away their level of knowledge solely by the questions they ask.

If you was asking a plumber why you smell gas sometimes in your basement and he/she turns around and asks if you used your hair dryer lately, you got problems.
 
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