(206) 949-5683, Top Rated Plumber, Seattle
Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 55

Thread: Danger Zone ??

  1. #16
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by molo
    Yes, I will have some detail photos there in 30 minutes.

    TIA,
    Molo
    Good deal

  2. #17
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    cold new york
    Posts
    840

    Default detail photos

    Here are some photos,

    1. Medicine cabinet and switch
    2. Medicine cabinet and new vent/light. (it is in place but not wired yet)
    3. The light that was above the medicine cabinet, (still trying to determine if I can reuse it)
    4. The light receptacle that the light was attached to. The wire on the right is the wire I have run for the vent/light. The red handle points to the power leg coming into the box.
    5. The switch (there is only one wire coming into this box)

    The goal: To safely install or reinstall the medicine cabinet light. To wire the new vent/light. To havde both the medicine cabinet light and vent controlled by the one bathroom switch. To add a GFCI outlet not controlled by the switch.

    Thanks for any help,
    TIA, Molo
    Attached Images Attached Images      

  3. #18
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Install a box and cable for the GFCI receptacle. Move box at light to where it is behind the fixture at the point of joints for light.

    The white for fan, light, receptacle and feed under one wire nut.
    The black from the feed, receptacle and the identified with black tape to the switch under one wire nut.
    The black from the fan, light and from switch under one wire nut.

    This will not give you a twenty amp circuit for the receptacle but it will be safer than what you now have.

  4. #19
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    cold new york
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Thanks JW,
    Does it seem right that I will have to put the GFCI outlet box just to the left of the existing light receptacle over the medicine cabinet? I am thyinking about how to get a power leg into the GFCI, and it seems I will have to move the one from the light box to the GFCI or use a junction box. (which I know I am not supposed to conceal), therfore I shouldn't simply use the exisiting light box as the j-box.

    Sound right, or am I missing an easier way to get power to the GFCI outlet box?
    NOTE: Here is a link to the fuse system that I have. Would I have to run power from this?
    http://www.terrylove.com/forums/showthread.php?t=14007
    TIA,
    Molo
    Last edited by molo; 07-04-2007 at 01:09 PM.

  5. #20
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Not knowing how the bath sink and cabniet is set up it would be hard to give advice on where to install the receptacle.

    looking at the light it seems that it could be turned with the lampholders covering the box that is already installed.

    If space allows drop down to just over the sink but below the cabinet and install the GFCI

  6. #21
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    cold new york
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Thanks for helping me with this JW. The light is the same width as the medicine cabinet, and did cover the existing receptacle box before. My concern is that the splices for the wires coming off the light were not actually in the box, but in the 1" gap behind the light and the sheetrock, is this up to code and safe? If so, I will reinstall it the same way, I will repair the sheetrock, and reuse this light because I like the light. Also, What do you think about how I should get power to the GFCI outlet?

    Thanks again,
    Molo

  7. #22
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by molo
    Thanks for helping me with this JW. The light is the same width as the medicine cabinet, and did cover the existing receptacle box before. My concern is that the splices for the wires coming off the light were not actually in the box, but in the 1" gap behind the light and the sheetrock, is this up to code and safe? If so, I will reinstall it the same way, I will repair the sheetrock, and reuse this light because I like the light. Also, What do you think about how I should get power to the GFCI outlet?

    Thanks again,
    Molo
    The box will need to be behind the place where the wires go through the light fixture on the old fixture. The old box should be able to move this much even if it means moving the light up a little higher.

    To supply the receptacle read this

  8. #23
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    cold new york
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric
    Install a box and cable for the GFCI receptacle. Move box at light to where it is behind the fixture at the point of joints for light.

    The white for fan, light, receptacle and feed under one wire nut.
    The black from the feed, receptacle and the identified with black tape to the switch under one wire nut.
    The black from the fan, light and from switch under one wire nut.

    This will not give you a twenty amp circuit for the receptacle but it will be safer than what you now have.

    OK, I understand. Next, how do I determine the size of the box I will need for the 4 wires? Also, is it acceptable to have the splices from the light fixture wires simply "floating" between the box and the back of the light fixture? If you look at the photo of the light fixture you will see that there is large open area along the entire back of the fixture. In other words, there is no physical barrier that surrounds the light fixture wires and connects to the box? Is this safe/to code?

    TIA,
    Molo

  9. #24
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by molo
    OK, I understand. Next, how do I determine the size of the box I will need for the 4 wires?TIA,
    Molo
    A round nail up box and a 2x4 scabbed between the studs


    Quote Originally Posted by molo
    Also, is it acceptable to have the splices from the light fixture wires simply "floating" between the box and the back of the light fixture?TIA,
    Molo
    NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
    Quote Originally Posted by molo
    If you look at the photo of the light fixture you will see that there is large open area along the entire back of the fixture. In other words, there is no physical barrier that surrounds the light fixture wires and connects to the box? Is this safe/to code?

    TIA,
    Molo
    NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

    After you do the wiring fix the hole behind the fixture.
    Try to make it look like you live there.
    Do the best job you can.
    Always walk away feeling proud of your work.
    Give it a full 110%.
    Get er done.

  10. #25
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    cold new york
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jwelectric
    A round nail up box and a 2x4 scabbed between the studs


    NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!
    NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO! NO!

    After you do the wiring fix the hole behind the fixture.
    Try to make it look like you live there.
    Do the best job you can.
    Always walk away feeling proud of your work.
    Give it a full 110%.
    Get er done.
    Thanks for the reply, I want to do this 110% right. I won't commence work until I have a plan that is safe and functional. So I am spending all of this time to develop a safe and acceptable approach!
    Please be patient while I restate my question about the back of the light fixture...... I am planning to repatch the hole in the wall, with proper framing pieces installed in the stud cavity to secure the new box, sheetrock, and light fixture to. My question is regarding the fact that there the top and bottom edges of the light fixture hold the 14" x 3" center portion of the back of the light fixture away from the wall. Therfore allowing for a space that big (even with the new sheetrock behind it). In other words, when you install a switch or an outlet, the switch or outler cover serves to enclose the box. In the case of this light the back of the fixture has the large open cavity that will not be directly in contact with the box, and certainly not enclosing the box tightly like a switch or outlet cover. Is this acceptable?

    Hopefully I explained myself,
    Molo

  11. #26
    Electrical Contractor/Instructor jwelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Location
    North Carolina
    Posts
    2,523

    Default

    Now I am beginning to understand your question a little better. I went back to the original pictures where I can see that part of the fixture is missing.
    Where is the back of the fixture?

    Yes there should be a back to the fixture that seems to be missing. You may need to find a new fixture. There should never be open conductors exposed to the wall board.

  12. #27
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    cold new york
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Thanks JW!
    I tryed to hard to explain the question, and I think you are getting my drift.
    This is a situation that I only see with light fixtures, occasionally I have installed new light fixtures where I have wondered about this. What I question is that you can have a brand new light fixture that is 10" in diameter (the new ones often have a piece of insulation with a foil face that goes against the sheetrock). None the less there is a 10" diameter light fixture covering a 4" diameter light receptacle, theoretically with no physical means of keeping the wires from drifting out of the light receptacle and between the foil-insulation that comes with the light and the sheetrock. Is it acceptable by code to allow this? Is this safe? This is the real question. With the answer to this question, I will have the answer to my light fixture problem. I'm assuming that code allows it, since almost any new light fixture has a larger diameter than the light receptacle does. But I don't want to assume that it is safe.
    Again, I hope I explained my question clearly.
    TIA,
    Molo

  13. #28

    Default

    Indeed, part of the fixture is missing so get a new one.

    The good news is that you have unswitched power at the j box so you can install your GFCI correctly.

    Change that metal box to a plastic one. Single gang deep would give you plenty of room for 4 cables.

    Your hot pair (Black and white) will connect to the B and W to the GFCI.

    The WHITE wire going to your switch will be hooked to the blacks also (we call it a suicide switch). That is the power going TO the switch.

    The BLACK wire will be your "switch leg" coming back from the switch. It will attach to the black (hot) wire of your new fixture.

    The whiite (neutral) wire on your new fixture will attach (usually by means of a pigtail) to the other white neutrals.

    Follow the citcuit. It "comes in" on the black and "goes" back on the white.

    GROUND everything (metal) and TIGHTEN your wire nuts.


    To address your Q on lights being larger than the J box....If the drywall is tight around the box it is "safe". Drywall is not really combustible so the fire would be contained for a while, hopefully till the breaker tripped.
    Last edited by Alectrician; 07-04-2007 at 11:01 PM.

  14. #29
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    cold new york
    Posts
    840

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Alectrician
    Indeed, part of the fixture is missing so get a new one.

    The good news is that you have unswitched power at the j box so you can install your GFCI correctly.

    Change that metal box to a plastic one. Single gang deep would give you plenty of room for 4 cables.

    Your hot pair (Black and white) will connect to the B and W to the GFCI.

    The WHITE wire going to your switch will be hooked to the blacks also (we call it a suicide switch). That is the power going TO the switch.

    The BLACK wire will be your "switch leg" coming back from the switch. It will attach to the black (hot) wire of your new fixture.

    The whiite (neutral) wire on your new fixture will attach (usually by means of a pigtail) to the other white neutrals.

    Follow the citcuit. It "comes in" on the black and "goes" back on the white.

    GROUND everything (metal) and TIGHTEN your wire nuts.


    To address your Q on lights being larger than the J box....If the drywall is tight around the box it is "safe". Drywall is not really combustible so the fire would be contained for a while, hopefully till the breaker tripped.

    Thanks for the answer to my question about the lights over the J-box! I've been wondering about this for a long time. Are there specific openings around the j-box that code just won't allow? (1/2", 3/4" 1") At what point, if any, would an inspector say that the opening is too much?

    Thanks for the help,
    Molo

  15. #30
    Jack of all trades frenchie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Brooklyn, NY and Fire Island, NY
    Posts
    1,244

    Default

    1/8th.

    Plaster right to the edge of the box.

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •