My garage is electrically charged w/120v!!

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helpmeplease

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I've been in my house for about 3 years, but only recently did I accidentally touch the side metal rails/tracks of my garage door while bare-footed. A shock was sent all the way up to my shoulder.

An electrician friend of mine came over to discover that the tracks, garage door and any other metal was charged with 120v of electricity. There was NO current when I unplugged my garage door opener from the ceiling outlet. But, the current returned when plugged back in, even when plugged into an outlet in the home away from the garage using an extension cord. The grounds (cold water grounds?) in my house checked out fine.

I was told by the garage door opener manufacturer that maybe the motor was damaged, causing this problem, but the electrical current is still there after replacing the motor.

While researching this online, I came across a news story of a boy who was electrocuted to death touching his garage door after getting out of a pool. The story mentioned something about underground lines?

What do I do? Who do I call? Is the home builder responsible? If it's underground, how do I determine that? How is it corrected? Who is financially responsible for this repair?

Thanks!
 

JWelectric

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helpmeplease said:
There was NO current when I unplugged my garage door opener from the ceiling outlet. But, the current returned when plugged back in, even when plugged into an outlet in the home away from the garage using an extension cord.
By using two different receptacles and the problem returning it would seem that the problem is in the garage door opener.
helpmeplease said:
Who is financially responsible for this repair?
This is answered in your opening statement;
helpmeplease said:
I've been in my house for about 3 years,
 

Got_Nailed

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I will guess that the cord is a 3 prong. I would get your friend back out to replace the cord (just cook him dinner he should do it for free). If it’s still there it’s the door opener. I would toss it and install a new one. With the amount of vibrations it makes a lot can happen.

You might get him to toss a GFI on it for a few seconds to see how log it takes to pop it. He should have a few with extension cords. This is one reason I think every thing in a garage should be GFI. To me it could be a wet location.
 

HandyAndy

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more than likely there is some thing not correct in the grounding circuit of the door opener or the receptacle it is plugged into,
as well as the opener it self having a short to ground,

the opener is shorted to ground, or the case in this instance regardless it be via the chain or the rail or what ever the case is hot and the frame of the opener and door is hot,

the purpose of the ground prong is if it does short to the case the case is to be grounded via the ground prong and thus make a good path back to ground to over load the breaker, (not leaving the case electrified)
(the ground wire on the cord of the opener should be attached to the case of the opener),

You apparently have the short to the case, but no path back to ground that is low enough resistance to trip the breaker, and when you touch it your providing an additional path to ground and electricity is flowing through you,

I would suggest you have your electrician check the grounding on that circuit as well.
 

joe in queens

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In lieu of the foregoing, I suppose it wouldn't be a bad idea to bond the tracks/rails. NEC 250.104(B) suggests bonding all piping metal air ducts for additional safety, so it couldn't hurt to bond the tracks/rails too. Had that been done, the breaker would've opened (assuming no other malfuctions) and that significant potential hazard would've been avoided.

I could also see this happening if the hots and neutrals were reveresed in the premise wiring - all too common on DIY installs.

I would check the outlet with an inexpensive GFCI outlet tester, just to make sure the outlet is properly wired.

Is this a detached garage? Is there a separate sub-panel in the garage?
 

helpmeplease

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Thanks for all the quick and helpful replies!

To answer 'Joe in Queens', this was originally a detached garage rougly 10' from the back of the house, which is a cookie-cutter floor plan in this development built in 1997. But, the original owner (previous to us) shortened the garage by several feet and enclosed the area between the garage and house to make a new room for additional square footage. There is not a separate sub-panel.

Obviously, rewiring took place, as new lighting was installed, but I was told that all electrical work was performed by a certified electrician.

I am having an electrician stop by tomorrow to look at things in more detail, incorporating the suggestions that all of you conveyed. I have also contacted the builder to see if they have information on any underground wiring.

Please keep your thoughts coming. I'll let you know what I discover tomorrow, in case you're interested in the outcome.

Thanks Again!
 

hj

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outlet

use a tester to check the outlet. Your hot and neutral terminals may be reversed to the opener's shell, which could be at neutral potential when properly wired, is energized when it is plugged in.
 

Alternety

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Neutrals on circuits should never be connected to ground or any connection within a device except the direct power connections.

The only place ground and neutral come together is the main breaker panel on the service entrance.

Allowing neutral and ground to tie together in a circuit will trip things such as GFI and AFIs controlling the circuit.

Reversing black and white on devices or outlets on otherwise properly wired devices will not cause those devices to be come hot. There are other issues of safety and you should not do that.

Not having a ground on a device will not cause that device to become hot unless there is a short inside the device. If there is a short to the frame, case etc., having no ground will make the device hot.

If you disconnect the garage door opener and it stops; the garage door opener is broken.
 
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Bob NH

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Wherever there is a source of electricity, such as the connection to the garage door opener, the metal that has any significant risk of becoming energized is supposed to be grounded. If the motor and frame of the door opener are properly grounded, it is impossible to maintain voltage on the frame.

There are at least two defects in the system. The hot conductor is not insulated from the frame and the frame is not grounded.

They are a lot of "double insulated" devices that have no ground but I have never seen a garage door opener that was "double insulated".
 

helpmeplease

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Well, the garage door opener is now working without an electrical charge going through it.

I'm not an electrician, so I'll try to convey what was said to me. Apparently, the ground in the garage was 'open' and was being used as the neutral (this probably makes sense to you more than it does to me). My buddy found a grounded outlet and fed off of that to fix the door opener.

A subsequent issue occurred, though, that can't be looked at until Thursday. A 3-way light switch on the inside of the house (for canned lights )that was working fine before the garage was grounded, now trips the breaker when turned on. This switch is on the inside wall on the opposite side of the wall that has the garage door opener switch. The other 3-way switch across the room that operates the same canned lights works fine without tripping the breaker.
 

Bob NH

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helpmeplease said:
Well, the garage door opener is now working without an electrical charge going through it.

I'm not an electrician, so I'll try to convey what was said to me. Apparently, the ground in the garage was 'open' and was being used as the neutral (this probably makes sense to you more than it does to me). My buddy found a grounded outlet and fed off of that to fix the door opener.

A subsequent issue occurred, though, that can't be looked at until Thursday. A 3-way light switch on the inside of the house (for canned lights )that was working fine before the garage was grounded, now trips the breaker when turned on. This switch is on the inside wall on the opposite side of the wall that has the garage door opener switch. The other 3-way switch across the room that operates the same canned lights works fine without tripping the breaker.

It is possible that the problems are related.

The use of the ground as a neutral on the garage door opener suggests that a neutral was not available. It may not have been available because someone used the neutral (white wire) in a cable to supply or control the 3-way switch circuit.

When a "neutral" was connected to the garage door opener, it may have been a white wire that was somehow tied to the 3-way switch circuit.

Someone should figure out what is going on before there is a real problem.
 

Yi3o8

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Hi. Sorry to bring an old thread to life.

Same issue. Pretty scary. Was due to an open ground/ no ground due to older wiring. Using a no contact tester, you could see that the garage door and rails were electrified. I ran an extension cord to the house and it solved the issue so then I ran it to a gfci no equipment ground and it also worked.

So long story short, I replaced the outlet to gfci. Since it's in the garage it should have always been in the first place.

In the future, I plan to run a ground wire, but it's no small task for someone who's never done it.
 

WorthFlorida

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Hi. Sorry to bring an old thread to life.
  • Same issue. Pretty scary. Was due to an open ground/ no ground due to older wiring. Using a no contact tester, you could see that the garage door and rails were electrified. I ran an extension cord to the house and it solved the issue so then I ran it to a gfci no equipment ground and it also worked.
  • So long story short, I replaced the outlet to gfci. Since it's in the garage it should have always been in the first place.
  • In the future, I plan to run a ground wire, but it's no small task for someone who's never done it.

You should not have any power on the ground side of any three wire appliance. If you do there is a short inside the GDO. Replace the garage door opener. It is not worth fixing unless you know how to open them and test for shorts. Installing a three wire outlet is always preferred and when you do you must run an entire new wire (NM-2 with ground) as a minimum, not just a ground wire.

Good move installing a GFCI but if it had a ground it would be tripping. A three wire GDO can work on a old two prong outlet and there will be no power on the door or rails. If you place a wire around a bolt or screw on the rails and ground the other end, the GFCI will trip. If the extension cord was three wire and plugged into a GFCI outlet with a ground, it would have also tripped.

Home Depot have a basic Chamberlain unit for $128. Not fancy and only one remote. If you never installed one it can be a bit intimidating but they are not hard to install. Get a buddy to help and give it a go.
 

Yi3o8

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You should not have any power on the ground side of any three wire appliance. If you do there is a short inside the GDO. Replace the garage door opener. It is not worth fixing unless you know how to open them and test for shorts. Installing a three wire outlet is always preferred and when you do you must run an entire new wire (NM-2 with ground) as a minimum, not just a ground wire.

Good move installing a GFCI but if it had a ground it would be tripping. A three wire GDO can work on a old two prong outlet and there will be no power on the door or rails. If you place a wire around a bolt or screw on the rails and ground the other end, the GFCI will trip. If the extension cord was three wire and plugged into a GFCI outlet with a ground, it would have also tripped.

Home Depot have a basic Chamberlain unit for $128. Not fancy and only one remote. If you never installed one it can be a bit intimidating but they are not hard to install. Get a buddy to help and give it a go.

Thank you for the reply. I was a little ambiguous. First I tested it with an extension cord to a grounded gfci in the kitchen. Then an ungrounded gfci. Both worked.

Now, after putting everything back together it is energized again. The extension cord to grounded and ungrounded gfci resolves issue. I'm baffled.

Good call on replacing the garage door opener. I'll try that. I just have no clue what changed or what is changing.
 

WorthFlorida

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A grounded outlet, non GFCI provides the path to ground. Problem is it is not enough current to trip a circuit breaker. Plugging the GDO into a non grounded GFCI should not be a solution and the garage door should still be hot.

Maybe the original outlet is wired reversed where the neutral side (white wire, white metal screws) is wired to the hot wire, black. With the GDO unplugged, check the outlet itself. If it is a metal box and wired with metallic cable that metal box might be hot.

I'm leaning toward this as the problem. An outlet with a ground (a three hole outlet) the ground blade inside the outlet is connected to the green screw and to the metal strap around the outlet and it all gets connected via the outlet screw to the metal box. The ground from the GDO is connected to all its metal parts including the trolley. If the outlet box is metal (as with most older homes), that is what might be hot and not the GDO.

How a metallic cable Might get hot, a nail or screw through the shielding into the hot wire and somewhere the metal sheath is not connected all the way back to the circuit panel for a ground.

This is my best guess from here.
 

Reach4

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Plugging the GDO into a non grounded GFCI should not be a solution and the garage door should still be hot.
I think it is a solution to somebody potentially getting an injurious shock.
 

Yi3o8

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OK. Some additional info. Taking the extension cord further to the same circuit inside the house (bathroom) resolves the issue.

I put extra tape around the gfci for the GDO. No change.

I used an extension cord missing the male ground. No change.

I connected it to a different gfci in the garage on the same circuit. No change.

A simple tester shows open ground but does not show hot neutral reverse which was my first thought as well.

Would an open/loaded neutral in the middle of the circuit (after the bathroom outlet) be able to cause this? I was under the impression that an open/loaded neutral down the line would cause this issue. Before would maybe cause no power?
 

Yi3o8

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OK. Although everything I just said was true. Forget most of it. I took the long extension cord into the garage and it resolves the issues on all gfci plugs in the garage including the one for the GDO. Voltage drop maybe? Still baffled. Going to leave it plugged in for a while to see. Might be a short term solution to what is hopefully a GDO issue.
 

Yi3o8

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What does no change mean regarding a symptom?

Still electrifies door, rails, and seemingly GDO.

I was testing other outlets using an extension cord but for some bizarre reason the long extension cord fixes it. A shorter cord makes the tester beep slower but still fast at a couple points.
 
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