New people; new approaches.
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My dad could sweat pipes like no one else. He used to have us all watch him, lol. He was proud of it. And, he taught my husband that skill. My husband was proud of it, and he never had forgotten my dad for teaching him. So, Grumpy, pass that skill on to others!
Oh, I was working a blow-torch at a very early age. My whole family years ago, were all welders. I would show off, with my dad's torch on the 4th of July,( lighting all the fireworks) until, it was taken away from me, when I burned the whiskers off of my dad's cousin. But, my dad understood, because, when he was a kid, he put a lite match in his cousin's pocket.
Oh, I was working a blow-torch at a very early age. My whole family years ago, were all welders. I would show off, with my dad's torch on the 4th of July,( lighting all the fireworks) until, it was taken away from me, when I burned the whiskers off of my dad's cousin. But, my dad understood, because, when he was a kid, he put a lite match in his cousin's pocket.
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GrumpyPlumber
Licensed Grump
bojala said:
Bojala,
Do yourself, me and anyone in my buz a favor...DON'T ask that I take a ride out to your home on my time & gas if you aren't sure you want the work done.
Call the plumber (Me) and be honest ...let it be known that you are just looking for comparison, unsure you want it done...I'm always happy to give ballparks over the phone..including worse case scenario's as long as the customer (You) is honest with me.
One of the factors in the way we bid is cost of doing business...part of that cost is travel/estimating.
I've had weeks where it seems like all I'm doing is offering "free home plumbing evaluations for the frugal shopper"...those weeks my prices are more likely to go up on the next estimate.
Most plumbers have a "flat rate" scale that we use...ask about prices on fixtures...cost per foot for piping...or hourly.
We don't bite....well, unless we're grumpy
GrumpyPlumber
Licensed Grump
Um...Cookie...if yer soldering with a blow-torch thats the problem...ya need something with a lil' more power....yup
GrumpyPlumber
Licensed Grump
Cookie said:If I call a plumber, and he comes out, he charges me for a visit, even if I don't have the work done. Don't you do the same Grumpy? By the way, being Grumpy will cause warts.
Cookie...I'm sole proprietor...I work alone except the occasional help with a boiler.
I get a huge amount of my work from repeat/referral buz.
People burn me all the time...other people see me as honest, reasonable (and yes...grumpy).
Charging for an estimate isn't my thing...if your calling me to replace a toilet I have a flat rate...kitchen faucet, lav faucet...same thing, I can price it over the phone.
If your doing a three bath home from the ground up...I go and size it up.
I hand you a list of references if you are new to me...but I don't charge for the estimate....you'd wonder how many more things I charge for on top of that as the work progresses.
IF you call me at 9pm and your heats off...your paying, handsomely...sorry, but the mrs and kid don't like me gone at those hours....gotta treat 'em the next day.
also...please...keep the wart thing under wraps...ssshhh
Grumps:
I only call companies that offer free estimates - that way I'm not wasting their time. My assumption is that they are paid by a company and therefore, paid for their time. If I feel that I'll get my $$$ worth by you, then I'll go with an experienced plumber. However, as a working man, I need to be cost effective, and legit want to learn. Worst case is, I try it myself, and it works, but I refer your service to someone else b/c that's never a waste of time.
I respect where you are coming from, though, as an independent. This job, without the vocab I learned from this site, would be hard to describe over the phone for an eval.
I only call companies that offer free estimates - that way I'm not wasting their time. My assumption is that they are paid by a company and therefore, paid for their time. If I feel that I'll get my $$$ worth by you, then I'll go with an experienced plumber. However, as a working man, I need to be cost effective, and legit want to learn. Worst case is, I try it myself, and it works, but I refer your service to someone else b/c that's never a waste of time.
I respect where you are coming from, though, as an independent. This job, without the vocab I learned from this site, would be hard to describe over the phone for an eval.
I didn't think anyone did free estimates anymore. I went to Sears today, and was looking to buy my son an excercise bike. I found one on sale for 149 bucks. The man had to order it since it was out of stock. No problem. He asked if I had someone to assemble it. I was standing there thinking, that I put big wheels together, how hard could it be. I told him, I was ok, didn't need it put together. But, I asked anyway, how much assembly would be. He told me, 170 bucks. I said, " you mean, 70?"
No, he meant 170. I stood there looking in the mirror across from me, and, didn't see one blonde hair, didn't see a sign which said, STUPID; so, I asked, can you explain, why, 170 for something, that is 149 bucks?
Funny thing, he equated it to a plumber, lol. So, I stood there listening while he told me, " If you had a plumber come to you house, it would cost you at least 100 bucks when he hit your door, then, there would be other charges." I said, " what other charges?" Then, in a really gruff voice, he said, " do you want this bike or not?" I asked him, " are you paid in commissions on this?" He glared at me, while, I told him, " nah, I just changed my mind."
Maybe, the price was right he was telling me, but, boy, I didn't like this guy, and, didn't like his attiude, and felt, somewhere, I was being taken. Plus, he was downgrading plumbers. I kind of like one.
No, he meant 170. I stood there looking in the mirror across from me, and, didn't see one blonde hair, didn't see a sign which said, STUPID; so, I asked, can you explain, why, 170 for something, that is 149 bucks?
Funny thing, he equated it to a plumber, lol. So, I stood there listening while he told me, " If you had a plumber come to you house, it would cost you at least 100 bucks when he hit your door, then, there would be other charges." I said, " what other charges?" Then, in a really gruff voice, he said, " do you want this bike or not?" I asked him, " are you paid in commissions on this?" He glared at me, while, I told him, " nah, I just changed my mind."
Maybe, the price was right he was telling me, but, boy, I didn't like this guy, and, didn't like his attiude, and felt, somewhere, I was being taken. Plus, he was downgrading plumbers. I kind of like one.
Grumpy, what I say, if someone calls and asks if I do free estimates is, my estimates are free. I will come out and give you the estimate which will be $100.00 and then leave. If you call me back to do the job I will deduct the $$$ from the estimate.
It works every time because they say no thanks and I haven't driven 1 mile and they are just looking for the lowest price anyway which I am not.
A win win situation
I know other plumbers that will go out and give a low estimate to get the job ie. quote $200.00 for a $300.00 job. They get the job, do it and bill $300.00. When the customer complains they will say.... wait all I gave you was an estimate not a hard fixed price, it ended up more that I estimated.
That to me is sneaky, kind of, but.....an estimate is just that....it is only an estimate and not a fixed price which they didn't ask for.
Most people in their mind equate an estimate with a fixed price which is wrong because it is not.
In OH car repair estimates are allowed to go up 10% by law before the customer has to be notified.
It works every time because they say no thanks and I haven't driven 1 mile and they are just looking for the lowest price anyway which I am not.
A win win situation
I know other plumbers that will go out and give a low estimate to get the job ie. quote $200.00 for a $300.00 job. They get the job, do it and bill $300.00. When the customer complains they will say.... wait all I gave you was an estimate not a hard fixed price, it ended up more that I estimated.
That to me is sneaky, kind of, but.....an estimate is just that....it is only an estimate and not a fixed price which they didn't ask for.
Most people in their mind equate an estimate with a fixed price which is wrong because it is not.
In OH car repair estimates are allowed to go up 10% by law before the customer has to be notified.
GrumpyPlumber
Licensed Grump
Cass...I'll say it again, YOU know yer stuff.
The "deposit" estimate is gaining popularity...I'm thinking of incorporating it.
But I'd guess that 75% of my work is service work...emergency calls.
Those are either hourly or flat rate per fixture, where they aren't so much shopping around as they are looking for it to be done asap..
I've slowly evolved away from new construction (too many bad experiences with new contractors looking for low-balling "joist shredders"), except for one builder that I really like working for - He'll insist the extra silcock is an add-on...I tell him I'll strangle 'im if he doesn't let me do the freebie, cause the write-up is more a pain than the $50 in stock and half hour of my time for all the work he gets me it's worth it, not to mention the receipts give me a lil' help with my tax write-offs.
Plumbers in business over generations eventually acrue a list of contractors like that, but that takes serious time to build trust..strong repore.
Customer satisfaction is the end-all do-all for us...taking the time to turn around at 7 pm, despite explaining to mrs smith that the water on the toilet tank that I just installed is normal condensate that can be fixed with a mixing valve and a hot waterr line if she wants to have it done, but ...just to go there and illustrate the "soda can" effect in person makes a world of difference...I have whole families the use me for their plumbing.
As for the plumbers who low-ball and then hit with add-ons...I make a point of telling the customer up front that if the existing plumbing needs additional work that'll be extra...often I can even give them potential pricing on what it might come to in that case.
I.E....If the lav replacement reveals galvy drainage..wall may have to be exposed to replace inside piping down to basement, otherwise I let them know down the road this could become a problem with slow drainage.
( I imagine how I like to be treated by my mechanic...and YES!...I have an HONEST ONE!)
There are other times when it swings my way too...like replacing a boiler-mate with a superstor...you price the job for 1" from the priority zone, assuming it's existing 3/4", to disover on site that it already is 1" copper for the loop.
The "deposit" estimate is gaining popularity...I'm thinking of incorporating it.
But I'd guess that 75% of my work is service work...emergency calls.
Those are either hourly or flat rate per fixture, where they aren't so much shopping around as they are looking for it to be done asap..
I've slowly evolved away from new construction (too many bad experiences with new contractors looking for low-balling "joist shredders"), except for one builder that I really like working for - He'll insist the extra silcock is an add-on...I tell him I'll strangle 'im if he doesn't let me do the freebie, cause the write-up is more a pain than the $50 in stock and half hour of my time for all the work he gets me it's worth it, not to mention the receipts give me a lil' help with my tax write-offs.
Plumbers in business over generations eventually acrue a list of contractors like that, but that takes serious time to build trust..strong repore.
Customer satisfaction is the end-all do-all for us...taking the time to turn around at 7 pm, despite explaining to mrs smith that the water on the toilet tank that I just installed is normal condensate that can be fixed with a mixing valve and a hot waterr line if she wants to have it done, but ...just to go there and illustrate the "soda can" effect in person makes a world of difference...I have whole families the use me for their plumbing.
As for the plumbers who low-ball and then hit with add-ons...I make a point of telling the customer up front that if the existing plumbing needs additional work that'll be extra...often I can even give them potential pricing on what it might come to in that case.
I.E....If the lav replacement reveals galvy drainage..wall may have to be exposed to replace inside piping down to basement, otherwise I let them know down the road this could become a problem with slow drainage.
( I imagine how I like to be treated by my mechanic...and YES!...I have an HONEST ONE!)
There are other times when it swings my way too...like replacing a boiler-mate with a superstor...you price the job for 1" from the priority zone, assuming it's existing 3/4", to disover on site that it already is 1" copper for the loop.
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