advice on plumbing an inderground cistern

Users who are viewing this thread

akebono

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
wyoming
I would appreciate advice on plumbing a cistern. I am getting three 2500 gallon concrete cisterns placed on my property. Does it matter how far from my house I put them? I plan on having them buried 6 feet deep so only the tops are above ground. What size diameter pipes should I connect them or what is the best way to connect the three cisterns together, and then what should I use to run the water into my basement. Does the water line need to be lever with the bottom of the cisterns? I have an extra room in my basement to put a pump, is a 1/2 horse big enough or should I go 3/4. I currently have a well but an going to start hauling water as my water eats my pipes and equipment. What type of pump should I use or buy and I already have a pressure tank system for my well pump, can I use this for a different pump? Should I buy a "jet pump". Any help would be appreciated as I am clueless on this matter. Thanks!
 
R

Rancher

Guest
akebono said:
Does it matter how far from my house I put them?
The farther you place them the more flow loss in piping.
akebono said:
I plan on having them buried 6 feet deep so only the tops are above ground.
Wyoming, I would have them below the frost level.
akebono said:
What size diameter pipes should I connect them or what is the best way to connect the three cisterns together, and then what should I use to run the water into my basement.
Bigger is better, what size pipes are the cisterns plumbed for?
akebono said:
Does the water line need to be lever with the bottom of the cisterns?
Yes unless you want to figure out how to pump from all three tanks separately.
akebono said:
I have an extra room in my basement to put a pump, is a 1/2 horse big enough or should I go 3/4.
Elevation change between the cisterns and the basement? Most put a submersible well pump in the cistern.
akebono said:
What type of pump should I use or buy and I already have a pressure tank system for my well pump, can I use this for a different pump? Should I buy a "jet pump".
Submersible, 1/2 HP, reuse the pressure tank system.

Rancher
 

akebono

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
wyoming
To Rancher

The cistern is piped with a 1 1/4 line to the best of my knowledge. I am not familiar with a submersible pump in the cisterns. I was thinking and it hurts for me to think , I would have all three cisterns plumbed together in a line. Then hook up a water line of 1 1/4 inches and direct it into my basement where there would be a jet pump. I guess the jet pump would then feed into the pressure tank system. Is this sensical or am I clueless as usual. How would you plumb this deal? I have alot of space and room for this to happen so I would like to know the best way to do it. Thanks again. Greg
 
R

Rancher

Guest
Do the Cisterns have fittings at the bottom of the tank... the only concrete tanks we have around here are septic tanks...

Rancher
 

akebono

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
wyoming
The cisterns do have fittings at the bottom and they are basically septic tanks. I hope this helps. Thanks Greg.
 
R

Rancher

Guest
Then just plumb them together at the bottom fittings, trench over to your basement and as long as you're not uphill from the tanks too much you can use a jet pump in your basement.

You can fill them all from just one opening.

Rancher
 

Bob NH

In the Trades
Messages
3,310
Reaction score
9
Points
0
Location
New Hampshire
If you connect all of the outlets and use the same connection for inlet and outlet, there is danger of water getting stagnant in one or more of the cisterns.

You should connect the cisterns in series with underground pipes, with water entering the first, passing through the second, and exiting the third. The pipe connecting them should be large enough to accept 2/3 of the fill pump flow at about 3 ft per second so first tank will not be much higher than the last tank when filling. That is about a 20 GPM pump for 1 1/4" connecting pipe.

Cisterns can never be sealed because they must be vented to allow gravity flow. The are susceptible to getting in bacteria and things. They should be disinfected to keep from growing contamination.

If they are being filled by a pump, you need a float switch to control the pump (or a float valve with pressure tank arrangement). If there is danger of the tank running dry there should be a float switch to protect the pump in the house.
 

akebono

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
wyoming
Bob,

Thanks for the help. I do not have power to the place I am installing the cistern and wanted to use a simple Jet pump to pump the water into my house. The problem is the cisterns are 8 feet tall and if I bury them 6 feet and have 2 feet hanging out, they will still be lower than my basement floor since my home is built on a 3 foot mound. Should I go with the jet or get a submersible? The main problem out here is there are simply no available plumbers/construction people to install this thing for me. I have waited 2 years to get the cisterns built, and now have waited 5 months to get the hole dug. Eventually I am going to rent or buy a backhoe to dig the hole if it does not get done in a few weeks, as my first wife will leave a vacancy for a second if I do not get her "city water" by summers end.(a backhoe will still be less expense than a divorce) I can place the cisterns close to the house or far it does not matter to me. If you have an idea or better plan than discussed please share it with me. Thanks for the help. Greg
 

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
akebono said:
I currently have a well but an going to start hauling water as my water eats my pipes and equipment.

What is the cause of the water eating pipes? It would be a lot less trouble and expense to treat the water than put in cisterns. And you'd have no chance of future problems as I think you will have with the cistern situation. If you bought online, a backwashed filter runs $700-$900 delivered.

And so far I don't think you've thought of any water treatment needs with this trucked in cistern water thing. I strongly suggest you learn about water quality problems and on going maintenance needs with cisterns before you get into this any deeper than you are.
 

Bob NH

In the Trades
Messages
3,310
Reaction score
9
Points
0
Location
New Hampshire
You can use a jet pump but if you do you should pick the 3/4 HP unless you have very low demand. Submersibles are much more efficient and a 1/2 HP submersible will pump as much as a 1 HP jet.

For example, a 1/2 HP Goulds 10GS05 submersible will deliver 10 GPM at 75 psi and a 1 HP Goulds J10S jet pump will deliver 9.9 GPM at 60 psi.

If you buy a submersible for cistern use you MUST get one that is sized for that application. The submersible that you buy off the shelf at HD or any other big box store will be a deep-well pump that has way too much pressure and too little flow for your application.

You really need to follow Gary's advice and get a water analysis done to see what is in your water and what can be done to fix it. If low pH water is eating your pipes, then a simple neutralizer tank, which is a tank of calcium carbonate chips, could solve the problem. On the other hand it may take more than that. Start with the water analysis before you get those tanks delivered or buy a backhoe.
 

akebono

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
wyoming
I don't know what causes the pipes and dishwasher/washing machine etc to be eaten. I have three neighbors who have told me there is nothing you can do about the water but put in a cistern. Believe me, I do not look forward to buying a trailer, tank and hauling water every week for the rest of my life. I will get the water analyzed and then move on.. Thanks for the help. GREG
 

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
What does eating the pipes look like, pinhole leaks?

If so there are numerous cause;s low pH acidic water, bacteria, electrical grounds, high velocity erosion especially in elbows or hot water recirculation systrems, improper on no reaming of copper tubing cut with a tubing cutter, excessive soldering flux, or, high DO or CO2 or TDS (total dissolved solids) content etc..

There is no water quality problem that can not be treated successfully.
 

akebono

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
wyoming
Gary,

The water eats through the dishwasher racks. It permeates the plastic and attacks the metal. In regard to everything else, it puts a white crust on the outside of all the metal parts goping to my toilets. The water will kill plants and lawns and will not be used by any animals. The white crust builds up to the point of clogging some fixtures. I replace faucets about every three years. I did not know there could be a cure for this. The only positive thing about my water situation is that I have a lot of it, it is bad quality and have been told I have the worst water in my county. I do not think it is a copper situation, but I do not know. Thanks for your help. GREG
 

Bob NH

In the Trades
Messages
3,310
Reaction score
9
Points
0
Location
New Hampshire
Water test is the next step. You need at least TDS, hardness and constituents of hardness, alkalinity, pH, chlorides, and all of the other stuff that you will get with that. It may be that you have high dissolved solids that are indeed impractical to treat.

How much rainfall do you get in your area?
 

Gary Slusser

That's all folks!
Messages
6,921
Reaction score
22
Points
38
Location
Wherever I park the motorhome.
Website
www.qualitywaterassociates.com
akebono said:
Gary,

The water eats through the dishwasher racks. It permeates the plastic and attacks the metal. it puts a white crust on the outside of all the metal parts goiing to my toilets. The water will kill plants and lawns and will not be used by any animals. The white crust builds up to the point of clogging some fixtures.

Nothing in water can damage plastic that is intact; meaning solid so as water can't get through and under it. Acids to caustics are packaged and stored in plastic. I'd think the rack coating material failed on its own, possibly due to heat and/or improper application at the rack factory.

White crusty is TDS (total dissolved solids), chlorides, sulfates, hardness.

White crust on the outside of the pipes is not from water inside the pipes... unless it is leaking, it will be from sweating pipes (humid air on cold surface) and airborne 'contaminates'.

Get a water analysis for: TDS, pH, hardness, iron, chlorides, sulfates, sodium if possible, alkalinity and Coliform bacteria.

Does the water have a taste, if so of what?
 

MaxBlack

Member
Messages
164
Reaction score
22
Points
18
Location
Northern Wisconsin
Bob NH said:
How much rainfall do you get in your area?
Yeah you should consider rainwater collection unless you don't have any roof area to collect from. Our well, when it was producing, provided water with 120 gpg of hardness--just horrible, clogs up everything after only a few months if not treated. I installed 30,000 gal of tank capacity this winter and after only a couple of rains have enough water (just an inch of rain yields us 3000gal) to last us 6 months, and it's just wonderful stuff compared to the milky junk that we'd been using. We're now so glad the well stopped producing and forced us to do this!

Of course here in Texas we don't have the cold weather issues y'all would have up North, so I can imagine that underground tanks & plumbing would be quite a bit more complicated than here, and of course there's the matter of roofing material--you need something other than asphalt-based shingles--and gutters/downspouts/collector pipes...
 

akebono

New Member
Messages
7
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
wyoming
Check valves with underground cistern

Gentlemen,

I have had three 2500 gallon cisterns set 12 feet deep outside my home. They have 2 inch brass fittings at the bottoms. The contractor left me hanging with all the parts but will not be back for three months to finish the job. I hired another contractor to dig the rest of the hole and am now going to plumb my system into my house. These are the things I was left form the first contrator or how I think he was going to do the job. Plumb all three cistern together with 2" pvc Install a check valve at the base of the three cisterns and then neck it down to 1 inch. Run the 1 inch into the foundation of my home and hook it to a gould 3/4 horse pump and pressure tank. My question is this, should I run the 2' into my foundation and then neck it down to fit my 3/4 horse pump, or neck it down 30 feet from the foundation at the last cistern. Where should the check valve go, it is a 2"? The cisterns are 4 feet deeper than my foundation. Should I gradually slope them up to my house foundation, or make a 90 degree at the base of my foundation and run the pipe straight up 4 feet? Why he placed the cisterns so deep I do not know, I thought he knew what he was doing but does not. I kid you not, the person who "designed " this system has left his job and will not return my calls. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks, Greg
 

Speedbump

Active Member
Messages
4,511
Reaction score
12
Points
38
Location
Riverview, Fl.
PUt the check valve at the last tank where you are going to smaller pipe. That smaller pipe should be 1-1/4". Then in any fashion, slope the pipe up to the pump trying not to leave high spots for air to get trapped (makes for easier priming).

bob...
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks