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Thread: Yikes, Cut Joist/Toilet flange

  1. #1
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
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    Default Yikes, Cut Joist/Toilet flange

    Hello All.

    I cut this hole in the floor today when I realized the floor was sloping under the toilet, and it was all rotted. The toilet had been leaking, and the floor joist was cut in front of the drain-pipe with no other support built for it!

    Questions are:
    1. The cast iron flange still appears to be solid, should I leave it or replace it?

    2. If it needs replacing, what material should I use, and how should I do it? It is a lead and oakum joint set-up.

    http://www.ufpi.com/literature/acqfastener-216.pdf
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    Last edited by Terry; 06-19-2007 at 11:59 AM.

  2. #2
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    The cast may be fine.

    The wood looks pretty bad.
    It looks like "hanger" time.

    I'm surprised the toilet hadn't just fallen in the hole.
    I guess the cast was holding it up.

  3. #3
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
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    Default floor to flange

    Hello all,

    As you can see from the photos, I need to replace the floor. My question is, does it matter if the cast iron flange is above or level with the finiched floor? What is the ideal? It looks like the floor level might come in level with the flange.

    TIA,
    Molo

  4. #4

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    i am not a plumber...but let me tell you my two most recent experiences:

    I had an attic (maids?) toilet area. Took out the old toilet and had an unstable subfloor. put in a new subfloor roughly the size of the area you have. Inserted a pvc flange-- it was 3 inch that fit into the 4 inch cast pipe.. the extending 3 inch pipe had some rubber ribs that really made the fixture snug. Installed a Cadet 3 with flange screwed into new subfloor. I will have to take this toilet out and reset the flange when I decide to finish the attic floor.

    Second instance--- moved a toilet. As i was taking out the old toilet--probably a mid 80's vintage, i noticed it had a pvc flange. I was going to cut it out and plug the hole. I turns out that the flange was properly glued to a 3 inch pipe that was probably 12-14 inches long. the pipe had what appeared to be wax ring material smeared around it...i guess to provide lubrication into the 4 inch cast. I plugged this whole with the proper rubber plug.

    it seems that you need to do something similar to the thing i did in instance number 1.

    Moving the toilet is another story... anyway... i have had a lot of success due to the help of people on this board and another board.
    Last edited by lee polowczuk; 06-15-2007 at 09:00 AM.

  5. #5
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    The flange is supposed to set on top of the finished floor and be screwed through the flooring and into the sub-floor.

  6. #6
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
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    The finished floor height comes in at level with the top of the tolet flange... What now?

    TIA,
    Molo

  7. #7
    Forum Admin, Expert Plumber Terry's Avatar
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    That will still be fine.
    Most homes in the Seattle area were plumbed lower than finished floor.
    Those take two wax rings.

    Dead even may be a one wax seal job. Maybe.
    You should be able to feel the wax squish.

    http://www.ufpi.com/literature/acqfastener-216.pdf
    Last edited by Terry; 06-19-2007 at 11:59 AM.

  8. #8
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
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    Default Flange Support?

    I have a concern;
    There will be no subfloor under the flange, do the flanges need support from the subfloor?

    TIA,
    Molo

  9. #9
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    In theory, yes. If the piping is plastic, certainly. The cast iron is pretty dam stiff and strong, but it the lead joints are well made, it's pretty strong just by itself. Consider that your toilet is sitting on the floor, but is held down by the flange bolts. If it isn't strong enough to hold the toilet in place, you've got problems. That's why it is supposed to be anchored well. You might be able to put some 2x material under there and catch both the flange and the subflooring with some screws. If you did one on each side, that would anchor it. This is probably overkill, but your labor is time, not money.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  10. #10
    In the Trades Gary Swart's Avatar
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    Molo, Jim has the best answer for your situation. You do want support under there, but it doesn't have to be a solid sub floor. Figure out how you can use some 2x scraps and joist hangers to box under the toilet and you'll be fine.

  11. #11
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
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    Default improved subfloor framing

    Here is the improved subfloor framing, Please let me know if I should do something different with the framing. I have to get in to the crawl space and install a piece of 2 x 8 under the back wall (where the toilet supply line comes out of). I can't believe the before photo... this is all that was there when I took the rotted sloping subfloor out!

    Molo
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  12. #12
    In the Trades kordts's Avatar
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    The flange needs to be screwed to the bracing.

  13. #13
    Licensed Grump GrumpyPlumber's Avatar
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    That thing is framed like ya read about...just one problem..
    Is that PT lumber for the joists?
    I'm NOT a builder, just a plumber, but I think PT's not supposed to be used indoors due to the chemicals.

  14. #14
    DIY Senior Member molo's Avatar
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    Good points,
    Yes, I have to screw the Cast Iron flange to the boards, and yes it is pressure treated. I wasn't aware of that restriction, and it makes sense. Although there are areas (The Bahamas is one) where presssure treated is required, it may not be accepted here in New York State because of the chemicals. I'll have to check the code.

    Molo

  15. #15

    Default

    Good job on the bracing/framing!

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