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Thread: Anyone???

  1. #1
    DIY Member atfdmike's Avatar
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    Default Anyone???

    My sister in law is in the process of buying a water softener for her home. It will be a new installation. She has city water but it is from wells, and is treated for hardness. She is worried about the mineral build up she is seeing on her plumbing fixtures, I guess it would be lime and or calcium?? She has gotten two different estimates and got the following results. I cannot figure out why the big difference and what, if anything it means. I have tried to use the links I have found here in the forum to figure it out, but it is still Greek to me. Would one of you pro's or knowledgeable persons mind offering some advice on what capacity water softener she needs to handle these statistics? She really wants an on demand system with the single all in one style. Her neighbor told her that they have a softener and still have buildup on their fixtures. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

    Culligan Michigan Water
    21 Grains 42 Grains (minerals/bacteria)
    350 TDS 360 TDS
    0.5 Iron 1.0 hard
    7.8 ph
    .5-1.0 ppm chlorine

  2. #2
    Plumber jimbo's Avatar
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    Default

    21 grains per gallon is fairly hard, 42 of course is even more so. I don't understand the comment about bacteria, because no softener, RO system, or filter of any kind is rated to handle water which is not bacteriologically safe. With the chlorine content, it is probable that the water IS safe.

    Many softeners are rated to handle a certain iron content. Check the specs on that one.

    As for the softener: Let's say family of 4, uses 300 gallons per day. Lets take a softener rated at 39,000 grains. 300 X 21 is 6300 grains per day. 39,000 divided by 630 means about every 6 days it will regenerate. This is a reasonable number. If they use more or less than the 300 gallon per day in my example, the regeneration would change. If the softener uses 4 pounds of salt per regeneration, that gives you an idea of your salt cost.

    Make sure that the softener is installed so it does not soften water to any irrigation system or the back yard hose bibb.

  3. #3
    DIY Member atfdmike's Avatar
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    Default water softener or savastat anyone?

    Thanks for the quick comeback Jimbo. Do you expect a softener as you computed to take care of the scale or staining my sister in law is concerned about? Someone told her that she also needs something called a Savastat. It charges the water or something like that. Would that be a quack idea or if it does work, is it needed in a softened system?

  4. #4
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking beware of water conditioner salesman

    their are a lot of scam artists out there selling
    these things for astronomical prices..

    what price are you
    being quoted anyway???

    the C....... man can really rip you off...they think that
    they invented soft water and have a monopoly on it.....

    and their are others even higher...
    like the Rain....... man


    Its best to get a two piece system in metered
    becasue of servicability and salt bridgeing
    in the one piece brands.....

    If you must have a one piece then you are
    limited to the size of the mineral bed..in most cases and brands.....
    but its not that big a deal if she lives alone.
    ..it will be big enough.


    The absolute best you can get is a CLACK..
    probably followed by fleck or Autotrol.

    the price should range between 875 through
    1200.00 for a 48,000 grain metered unit
    depending on what plumbing has to be
    done to get it installed..


    on another note I am pretty sure that you can
    LEASE a metered unit from a
    local small town family owned company
    for probably about 20 bucks a month..then
    you can try it for a few months to see if you like
    the results without having to
    shell out the big bucks.





    and they wont try to sell you high priced salt,
    or all sorts of thiings that
    they say you need.

    just look in your yellow pages at the smaller adds.

    http://www.weilhammerplumbing.com/galleryii/
    Last edited by master plumber mark; 05-21-2007 at 09:17 AM.

  5. #5
    DIY Member atfdmike's Avatar
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    Default answers to questions

    Thanks for reply Master Mark,

    My concern is also that my sister in law not get sold a bill of goods or scammed. She did not tell me how much they wanted for their equipment, but I will ask. Right now I want to know what size machine she needs, and I think I now have a pretty good idea, thanks to this forum.
    I guess I need to find out more about this Savastat product. I had never heard of such a device, but it sounds too good (although I don't know price) so it probably does not live up to its' claims. I think I may post a new thread to see if anyone else has heard of it.

  6. #6
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking just dont sign anything...

    they really ike to play head games with
    the victims and try to intice them into signing
    something for some spceial "today only" deal.....


    just tell her to walk away and call around
    for other quotes

    this "special product" you are talking about is
    probably their own "high tech" product that has some
    "exclusive patent" with rights to them only....
    and its been installed on the NASA space shuttle
    or someting like along those lines....

    smoke and mirrors...


    there is a fellow named Gary Sussler that might
    leave a comment here about what it is you are
    lookking into
    Last edited by master plumber mark; 05-21-2007 at 10:26 AM.

  7. #7
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    Default softener

    A friend's brother had a soft water system installed. By financing it, he received a free installation. The only problem is that by the time he finishes paying for it, it will cost him about five to eight times what any legitimate plumber would have charged. Smaller capacity softeners recharge more often than large capacity ones, but they both produce the same water. Normally the deposits from soft water are easier to clean than those from hard water. Softening replaces the calcium ions with sodium, but the sodium can still produce deposits.

  8. #8
    DIY Member atfdmike's Avatar
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    Default water softener

    I am definitely going to pass this along to my sister in law. One of the reasons I think she asked me for advice is that she has the same fears about being taken advantage of because she is a woman and/or unfamiliar with this equipment. (I HAD to be her only alternative....LOL) Now I am learning too!

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