Help! AC Stops Blowing Thru Vents?

R22 is about $3 a pound wholesale, but of course has to mark that up a little, and he does have to pay a disposal fee when he pumps your system down. I don't have an EPA cert. and I don't know if it is OK to pump up the system and "come back later " to check for leaks.

You cannot mess with that system, because the EPA fine is $10,000 for uncertified people messing with refrigerant.

I do not like some of the other symptoms you describe....the filter getting sucked up , etc. You might need a tech ( different one) to look the system over real good at the time you spring for new 13 SEER units.

I don't like it much, either.

The tech said if I'm not happy with the service to call back and they'll at least come back out and check it again without charge. So I may as well call the same place again, at least it wouldn't cost me anything to have them come out.

This is also why I hate looking for techs, I think I just picked the wrong place -- The shop I called is a local jack of all trades shop, sent out one of their HVAC specialists that turned out to be a kid just a few years out of tech school. Sigh. Obviously he did what he thought would remedy the problem but didn't think to check anything else out.

I'm sitting in the house, the AC has been running now for 4 hours and the temperature has gone up a degree since I turned it on in the house. The baffling thing is that the vent I am at IS blowing cold air (maybe not cold enough though, I dunno).

Not sure where to go from here really. So in charging me $100 per pound for the R22 are you telling me I was WAY overcharged? Or is that just the industry standard for most shops?

You know, the more I think about it, the air that's coming out of the vent is cool, but certainly not COLD -- It was much colder before he added the R22 today (no idea why adding R22 would make it wamer, though he did say my system was using a different type of coolant that they don't use any longer). So I guess I'll call them tomorrow and see if they can send someone back out for free to do a better diagnosis.

The problem I have with this $80 to show up at the door policy that all these HVAC contractors have is that it basically forces you to use their services once they show up, unless you want to pay another $80 to get another contractor to come out and diagnose and give an estimate. Makes me wonder why the ads say "free estimate" when it's really an $80 estimate.

I do believe they should be more clear about the Free Estimate. Apparently they give you an estimate on the phone? $80 to take a look. If you call them out, then you pay the $80?


I am now also concerned when you say it used to have a "different refrigerant". For the most part, you cannot just add another refrigerant. In general, I don't think you can mix types. Again, you are talking to mostly plumbers here, not HVAC experts. I have some basic knowledge and am trying to look for "issues" and point you in a direction.

Wow, that's really interesting Jimbo. I can't help but wonder if the guy may have screwed the system up by doing that, then. I know he said something about my system using a refrigerant that they don't use anymore, and needing to put R-22 in...But I can say with certainty that he didn't drain any of the old stuff out before he did this. I watched him hook the tank up to the existing system and just turn it on to fill it back up.

Needless to say, I'm calling them as soon as they open this morning. If any major work needs done, I don't think I want this company doing it, though I think they at least owe me a free service call to come back out and re-diagnose the problem, hopefully the proper way this time.

Thanks. If anyone else has anything to add I'm all ears. Thanks, I am learning quite a bit here.

I think the Serial # / Model # tag should have the refrigerant # stamped on it.
I wonder if it is and old unit that takes R12 and he dumped R22 into it. If he did they need to evacuate all the refrigerant out and recharge the unit at no cost to you.
If yours needed 134A and all he had was 22. I think 134A is a blend and maybe he thought the 22 wouldn't affect it. I would look for the tag and see if it has the type of refrigerant needed stamped on it.

Cass, thanks for that option -- Do you know where the tag might be located? Somewhere on the outdoor unit or would it be inside? If I can locate that on my lunch hour today, I can post up what it says it needs. My unit was new 8 years ago, so who knows what fluid that took, but he didn't seem to do anything but assume R22 without further study, so you may be on to something here.

Could it be possible than an 8 year old unit took R12 or 134A?

I'm not sure when the switchover was. The tag would be on or inside of the compressor unit (the part outside). It might be visible without taking the service cover off. It should also be in the servicing info which should have been left with you.

8 years ago it is not likely anything but R22. R134a is not used in residential , as far as I remember. It is a replacement for R12 in autos. The current "new generation" refrigerant is R410. And I repeat that in general, you do NOT mix refrigerant types. Now, there may be exceptions to this because again I am not an HVAC tech. I know just enough to be dangerous, as the saying goes!

It is important to note that you do not "drain out the old refrigerant". That would bring the EPA down on you. It must be pumped out using a vacuum pump and refrigerant recovery system. Together, these two pieces of equipment will set you back a minimum of $700 and a better set you would be in the $2000 range. Not to mention a few hundred for a good set of gauges and hoses. Not to mention they have to pay to dispose of the recovered material. The EPA training and cert. is also not free. So you see some of the reason these guys do charge a lot.

Anyway, I think we have enough flags here to seek a second opinion from another service company.

Thanks -- I still haven't heard back from the original contractor regarding coming back to troubleshoot the problem for free - My plan is still to let them come back just to hear what they say, then get a second opinion from another contractor. I also want to get some good solid advice, depending on the problem, on replacing the entire system vs. just fixing the problem. If it's $1500 to repair it or $2500 to replace it entirely, I may lean towards just replacing it all to ensure (hopefully) more trouble-free years and no more breakdowns (seems that often when one part goes, others follow).

HVAC Rip-off

I don't even know where to begin here.

First of all, you still don't even know what the problem is. They charged you over $500, and you are way worse off than when you started. They need to troubleshoot and fix the original leak, as well as pump out and recover the entire system of all of the mixed refrigerants.

The dye should only be used as a last resort. A relatively large leak can be eyeballed. You just turn the A/C on and look to see where the ice first starts to form. And there's your leak. I don't think it's an extremely slow leak or you wouldn't get so much icing. You may, however, have 2 separate problems. You could have a very slow leak, which would account for the low pressure reading. The icing may be due to something else entirely.

Regarding the service tech: Even if he was stupid enough to mix the refrigerants, he still should have noticed it wasn't blowing cold air. And he should have called back to the shop for guidance.

If they tell you that you need a new compressor or something else very expensive, then you should find out the cost, minus what you've already paid them in order to make your decision.

If they give you a hard time, you should threaten to sue and notify the better business bureau.

A natural result of low refrigerant is icing in the evaporator, it is not caused by it leaking refrigerant directly. Not moving the right amount of air over the coils can result in some, too, but that is not his problem.

I had my compressor replaced last year...did not replace the evaporator coils or lines, the old one was a 14 SEER, replaced with a similar unit - cost me around $4k. Depending on where you live, and what you have, labor rates and the price of the unit will differ, higher or lower. Our labor rates are above average, but not at the top tier as seen in some places.

Hey folks,

Here's the update -- Got a different tech this time, a much more confident one who obviously had a ton more experience. Really nice guy. He immediately made me feel more confident about things.

He looked over the entire system in detail then we went out back, where the outdoor unit (compressor is it?) was making a horrible noise. He hooked up his gagues to realize the system had been LOADED with R22. Like WAY overloaded. The gague was going through the roof. So he let me know I'd be refunded everything except the original service charge to come out, and no charges at all for today. Completely sucked the system dry and then refilled with the proper amount of R22 for the system.

He said he didn't actually detect any leaks, or think the system even had any, and didn't see any reason why it would have iced up. So I'll be keeping a close eye on it the next few days. He did show me that my inside coil was pretty corroded from 8 years of usage. Also, my outside unit is not in the best of shape either, efficiency-wise. A very stupid person (read: me) tried to clean it 2 years ago with a pressure washer. I got about halfway done before I realized I was pinching the fins closed. So the unit has been working very hard but has cooled well for the past 2 years. I realize its days are numbered.

In the end, he admitted that the last tech made a lot of mistakes, the key being not letting the coil defrost before service -- He didn't say anything about mixing coolants, or the dye, but he DID say that he needed to let the coils inside defrost before hooking up the machine to get the coolant reading -- He didn't. Hence the reason he was able to extremely overfill the system. I asked if this could have damaged anything and his reply was no. I imagine if I want to be a really squeaky wheel about it I could complain and get free service or parts, but the guy was nice and spent a good 3 hours with the system and I at least have had a good checkup on it and new R22. We'll see how cool the house gets tonight, of course.

They did quote me a bit over $4k installed for an entire new system from Trane - Or something like $330 for a full cleaning of the system, inside and out. I didn't accept either. Think I'll still go with another company (or at least get another estimate) before replacing anything, parts-wise or system-wise. The GOOD news of all this is at least I am not out close to $600, and can go back to square one as far as finding a good contractor to ultimately fix whatever the problem is.

What a day.

If you go to a hvac supply shop, you can buy a comb and straighten the fins. This will help, and won't hurt. They come in various pitches, sometimes on different sides of the same tool to match the spacing of the originals.

Not to derail but anyway on cleaning the coil? Seems the outside is clean but I wonder on the A coil the underside? Seems that would get the dust that the filter missed and could limit the amount of air transfer.