Newbie question

lardlad · Apr 28, 2007

I'm considering having a deep well dug on some lakeshore property and am in the process of getting some bids.
Some say they no longer do 2" wells and will only do 4-6". Some have quotes for PVC, some for galvanized. Is there an accepted standard now with using PVC vs steel? The 2" would probably suffice for the small cabin that is there now but if in the future we'd like to do a year round home I think we'd be better with a 4".
Neighbors have gone around 180 feet to get good water, one has an artesian well (not sure what that is, other than he has a small pond out back that runs year round). Long winded question is PVC best or galvanized? Are there any advantages to an artesian well?
Thanks,
Jim

Speedbump · Apr 28, 2007

I would stay away from a two inch well.

4" galvanized is fine. If your going with PVC, go a size higher, like 5" or 6". I have reasons for liking and disliking both types of pipe so it's a toss up.

bob...

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Raucina · Apr 28, 2007

Artesian wells are pretty rare and tap a water source under some pressure- water runs out of the cap. Punch too many holes and the pressure gives out.

I might approach the neighbor and buy some of his excess water

Sammyhydro11 · Apr 28, 2007

A lot of people will call wells drilled in bedrock artesian wells but unless there is water free flowing out of the casing it is just an ordinary well drilled in bed rock.A rock well is usualy installed in areas where you cant get a screened well.Your drillers in the area will have a good clue if you will be able to get a screened well or not depending on where you are. Installeing a 4" galvanized screened well to me is not necessary unless the conditions require it. What i mean by that is the PVC casing might be difficult to get in the ground because the condition of the material being drilled in wont allow you to push PVC into the ground. Galvanized casing will allow you to add more pressure to it without it breaking. If the material is real tough the PVC screened well can be installed using hollow stemed augers. Other than that there is no other reason to go with galvanized casing.

SAM

Rancher · Apr 28, 2007

lardlad said:
one has an artesian well (not sure what that is, other than he has a small pond out back that runs year round).

It's pretty obvious that this neighbor has an artesian well due to the pond that runs year round.

lardlad said:
Are there any advantages to an artesian well?

Yes, it means you don't need a submersible pump, you save a lot of electricty that way, if you can get your well driller to drill you an artesian well by all means go for it.

Rancher

Terry · Apr 28, 2007

In Tumwater, Washington State, one of the beer companies used to advertise that theirs was made from water that they got from an artesian well.
It was called Olympia Beer.

Rancher · Apr 28, 2007

My Dad loved Olympia beer... he used to do his reserve duty at Ft. Lewis just so he could go on the brewery tour and drink free beer.

Do they still make that stuff? Just Googled it, they closed in 2003

I also remember A-1 beer made in Tucson, they were micro breweries before there was such a thing.

Rancher

Cookie · Apr 28, 2007

Rancher, I can ask one, any one of my relatives, they would know. I am the outcast in my family, cause I don't belong to AA. I am working on it...

They are driving me there.

Sammyhydro11 · Apr 28, 2007

Having an artesian well doesnt mean you dont need a pump in it.

SAM

lardlad · Apr 28, 2007

Sandy soil

We are right on the shores of Lake Michigan so it's sand, at least on top. One driller I have talked to said it would likely be 120' to water "above the clay" and more like 180 to be "below the clay". He said the only real difference is in the color the water, evidently some discoloration "above the clay". This is the well guy who has been around the longest, he seems to know everyone and every place. He's the only one willing to do a 2" galvanized well, the rest say 4" minimum and recommend PVC where we are.

Rancher · Apr 28, 2007

Below the clay layer is where you will get an artesian well, it's water trapped below there that will be either forced out by the overbering clay layer, or it has traveled down to the layer from an elevation higher than you are currently.

The only reason that I know of that you would put a pump in an artesian well is if it didn't produce the quanity of water you needed without it. Around here we just pipe the water from the well to a storage tank, let the overflow fill a pond, and pump directly from the storage tank.

Rancher

Leejosepho · Apr 28, 2007

lardlad said:
One driller I have talked to said it would likely be 120' to water "above the clay" and more like 180 to be "below the clay". He said the only real difference is in the color the water, evidently some discoloration "above the clay".

From some things I have read here on these boards, I believe the water below the clay might be less subject to pollution. At least that is the case where I live, but the water above the clay is only about 25' down and my well is only about 65' deep.

Sammyhydro11 · Apr 29, 2007

In my opinion a 2" galvanized well that deep can be very costly when it comes time for maintenance and having a single pipe jet in a galvanized well over time can get stuck.If you dont have the money to swing a 4" well i would at least have them install a 2" PVC well to avoid problems associated with a jet packer in a galvanized well. A 2" well also has more parts to the system that are likely to fail. If you plan on having a year round residence,and you live in an area where temperatures get below freezing, the 2" well will have to be set up so it wont freeze and also so you will have access to the well head for repairs. That means you will have to install a well pit. A 4" well with a submersible pump has more benefits over the 2" well. They produce more water,the pump doesn't lose their prime,and the pump doesn't require a hoist truck to remove it when it fails.They also dont require a well pit. the connection below grade has a pitless adapter. This adapter is designed so you can disconnect the pump from the water line to the house without having to dig it up. The 4" well is less complicated ,works more efficently,produces more water,and will pay for its self over time.

SAM

Raucina · Apr 29, 2007

No one around here ever thought of a well less than 6".

Unless they bought that goofy 2" drill rig I used to see in comic books and popular science so you could do it yourself.

lardlad · Apr 29, 2007

well size

I'm trying to keep my cost as low as possible. This is a two bedroom, uninsulated, unheated cabin used May thru September on weekends mostly.
Don't need much water but to flush a toilet, take an occasional shower.
I've read the comments on well pits and pitless adapters. I want something I can drain in the fall and switch on in the spring.
Jim

Speedbump · Apr 30, 2007

Artesian wells are any well drilled that has a static water level. This is practically all wells. Water does not have to come out the top of the casing to be artesian. Flowing wells have water coming from the top of casing.

I remember the Olympia beer commercials. The little Artesians were always messing with the guy who did the commercial, like turning the sprinklers on when he was telling about the beer. Nasty stuff, but great commercials.

The 2" well I drilled in Silver Lake near Muskeegon, Mi. went 71'. The sand was pink (yes pink) was very fine and the well flowed 13 gpm after installing a double 100 gauze screen. If your anywhere near that area it is likely you will also have a flowing well. But I agree with Sammy, go with the 4" well. You will be glad you did later on. By the way, well pits are illegal in Michigan. Pitless adaptors are required.

bob...

Sammyhydro11 · Apr 30, 2007

Speedbump,
does the same apply with a 2" well? I can understand why they wouldnt want a well pit with a 4 inch but the 2" the well has a sealed well head. The reason for the well pit with a 2" well is to allow access to the well in order to remove the jet. Without the pit you would have to dig up the well every time you had a problem and in the winter time you will have zero access because of the frost. Here in massachusetts well pits are ilegal too but only on a 4" or 6" well.

SAM

Speedbump · Apr 30, 2007

Yes, they have 2" pitless adaptors too. Whitewater and Baker are the two most popular ones I remember. They use a spool with a couple of orings. You can pull the jet right through the 3" pipe the pitless is made of. They also require concentric piping (one pipe inside another) usually 2" and 1" poly. Then the casing adaptor is used in the crawl or basement to attach to the pump. I did thousands of them before going to 4" in the eighties. That makes me feel old.

bob...

Rancher · Apr 30, 2007

speedbump said:
Artesian wells are any well drilled that has a static water level. This is practically all wells. Water does not have to come out the top of the casing to be artesian. Flowing wells have water coming from the top of casing.

So all wells are artesian? I guess Webster got it wrong.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artesian_aquifer

Rancher

Valveman · Apr 30, 2007

I have always thought that a well had to be flowing at least part of the time to be artesian. I have heard people call wells artesian when the water level increases as a certain aquifer was drilled into. I know of some wells that are dry drilled until they hit 800'. Then the water level comes up to 300' once the 800' aquifer is tapped. I would call this a pressurized aquifer but, other people still call them artesian.

Most artesian wells that flow out the top still need a pump. The well may only flow 1 GPM or so but, when a pump is installed the well will produce lots more water.

In my area, I prefer PVC casing, and the larger the better up to a point.

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