Air gurgling in Drake & shower drain

[DavidD]

We have had a Drake for about 2 years. Absolutely love it. For a couple of months now, there has been some air gurgling. It started after a particularly cold night (still in winter) and was only in the toilet. It happens near the end of the '3 second flush' when it is pretty much done with the flush and wanting to start the fill. I'm not sure exactly if it is at the end of the flush or start of the fill, but right in that time frame.

It continued like that for a while. My initial thought was that a pipe from the house to the street connection had frozen/cracked/etc. It continued like this for 2-3 or so weeks, then we started noticing the air gurgle sound in the shower drain. The shower drain only gurgles when there has not been any water run through it for a while. It seems to me that somehow the trap is getting emptied. Shower/run some water into the tub, and it won't gurgle (from the shower drain) for several hours. It always continues to gurgle in the Drake.

Things I have done/checked: The drain access (cleanout? - pipe running down into the basement with the capped Y near the floor). It is old cast iron. Didn't seal well at all. Cleaned it up & put in a new screw 3in plug. It is sealed well now. I also checked the roof vent pipe. There were no bird nests blocking the vent.

It is a 90 year old house. This is the only bathroom/toilet. It appears to still flush fine. I am only concerned because it didn't do it at all before, and then suddenly it did. The air gurgle in the shower drain is a bit annoying.

Any suggestions?

[Peanut9199]

For venting problems there is ususally 3 different problems.
The toilet will flush slowly, air gurgling or the water will syphon from the bowl.
You may have a vent problem but not at the top of the stock.
If you fill a basin in the same bathroom and let the water out, you should see it go down slowly.
If the shower and toilet is one the same run it may be a problem between the unit and the stack.

[Terry]

The fill valve may not be closing.

Here are instructions below
www.terrylove.com/hunter.htm

[DavidD]

The fill valve may not be closing.

I don't exactly know what you mean, "may not be closing." It doesn't continue to run or anything. I don't hear any water running/leaking when it is not supposed to (when not flushing). But, I am willing to try a fill valve replacement.

I have browsed this forum for a little while and recall seeing various fill valves discussed: the Korky & the G Max to name two. Is there a specific one that is preferred over the others?

Thanks!

[Peanut9199]

The fill valve is not important to the function of the toilet.
As long as it fills to the water level line (made need to be adjusted for height).
Korky makes the fill valves for Toto, Korky more recently.
Lowes has a Korky that looks exactly like Toto except it has a white cap.
I think the Fluidmaster 400A, never have any problems and alot cheaper.
Korky/Hunter/Toto fill valves can be serviced and cleaned (older style "A") as Toto is now changing thier fill valves.
http://www.terrylove.com/korky/

[DavidD]

Well, I replaced the fill valve with the Korky QuietFill yesterday. After a day of use, the air gurgle is reduced but still there. I don't recall hearing any shower drain gurgle last night though. So, an improvement, but not a cure all. Give it more time? Any other suggestions?

I don't know if the Korky's fill rate is suppose to be different than the Toto's, but I would have to say that it seems slower. When we first got the Drake, I remember timing how long it takes to refill after a normal push & release flush. If memory serves, it was about 30 seconds. I'm clocking the Korky at 50 seconds. This doesn't mean anything by itself, but this "Quietfill" sure is a lot louder than the original. The fill valve itself might be quieter, but we are hearing what appears to be water flowing through the supply hose & that is a LOT louder than what it used to be. If the Korky isn't going to stop the gurgle, I'm half-tempted to replace the original Toto fill valve. Any thoughts on this new development?

We aren't trying to be picky about noises, mainly just air gurgling that isn't supposed to be there. We fell in love with the Drake when all was working as it should and just want to return & keep it that way.

Thanks, guys!
David

[jadnashua]

Are you sure the shutoff valve for the toilet is fully opened? Is it a 1/4-turn version, or the older multi-turn jobs? If it is an older one, and it is fully opened, you might want to consider replacing it with a new 1/4-turn. The washers in those can deteriorate and offer some restrictions.

[DavidD]

It is an older, multi-turn style. I'm pretty sure that I got it all the way open, but I will have to check to make sure.

David

[Terry]

Also make sure you're not using a Watts Flood Safe on it.
The Quiet Fill use more volume of water than the Flood Safe can handle.

[DavidD]

The supply hose is a braided stainless steel hose, but I don't see that it has the longer shut-off valve/mechanism on either end.

I will pick up a new 1/4 turn shut-off when I am out later and change that out. Will report later.

David