Customer problem RE: water heater & tub

Hi! I'm an office manager trying to help one of our plumbers get something in black and white for a problem customer.

Here's the situation. Customer has:

GE 50 gallon electric water heater
Model SE50M12A
Serial GE0899409335

Standard length bathtub, DOUBLE WIDE.

She bought the home 2 weeks ago, just moved in. Our company is the vendor for her Home Warranty company. We have been out there for the original call --not enough hot water, and one recall. She called the warranty company again, insisting there is something wrong.

The tech has tested the water heater, did the bathtub test, everything is operating normally, no failure, none zero zip.

I'm running out of plumbers to send, she keeps wanting a new one to find something, anything wrong. We have explained it to the insurance (warranty) company, and they want us to go out AGAIN. We would like to have something IN HAND, to show her that her 50 gallon tank is too small, OR that her bathtub is too big!

Logic is not working.

The insurance won't replace it till the liner fails. The tank is not leaking.

Any ideas?

liters or gallons. Any unit will do.

many tub manufacturers' web sites have the tub's full capacity somewhere on the page that shows the tub. You'll find it, in the small print, or in a table.

you must be able to get the name of the manufacturer.

david

Homeowner didn't purchase the tub, came with the house, tech had no idea who made it---however I will try your suggestion anyway using standard length and double wide (two person) as a guide.

Thanks for the idea!

Whoops, double post.

The amount of hot water that a heater can deliver depends on the capacity of the heater, the temperature setting and the temperature of the water in the heater, the temperature that the customer is trying to achieve in the tub, and the temperature of the water feeding the heater.

The amount of hot water will be increased by turning up the dial and by making sure that other hot water is not withdrawn just before the tub is to be filled. The heater has limited recovery rate.

Just a thought here, but why not use a water measurement.

One gallon
=231 cubic inches
=0.13368 cubic foot weighs aprox. 8.33 pounds.

Measure the tub, weigh the water, and use volume units.
There is alot of water measurements if you google it. * What I am getting at, if you can show her on paper, if her tub is too big for the amount of water in the heater, if that is the problem, wouldn't that solve the problem?

http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2216/F-1501web.pdf

These are all excellent suggestions, and very valid points!

I'll mention the temperature setting to the tech, but he probably thought of it already, he's very qualified, but a bit frustrated.

As far as the volume measurements idea, I'll pass that along too. I'm looking for the approximate volume that a tub like this normally holds. A standard 50 gallon WH only gives about 37 gallons of HOT water, with the bottom being cooler, and she somehow does not understand that.

Personally, I think she should get an inline tankless heater, that would solve the problem immediately, although I think it's more expensive than replacing the 50 with a 65 or 80.

Without knowing the make of a tub, you can just look at a tub and know approx how many gallons it needs to fill it, if you have seen more than a few tubs and you have been active professionally in a field related to this topic. You don't need to go get the number of liters or gallons off a web site or a spec sheet. A ballpark figure will do when you have to explain to someone that their tub is large and that "this number" is the approx number of gallons it takes to fill it.

I find it hard to believe that a little firm doing something professional in the plumbing service field doesn't know how to tell a homeowner that a tub is large and a tank is small. That is my reaction.

While we're all still here, kicking out ideas, let's add this one: There is a thingie that can be added to the pipe coming out of the tank, that will mix extra hot water with cold water so that the result is just plain old hot water but a whole lot of it. After installing it, you raise the temperature in the tank to a very high temperature and then the mixing thing brings the two "waters" together (extremely hot, and basic cold) and you get a whole lot of plain old hot water. Like double.

david

Some people have to see it in black and white to believe it.

Maybe, just go to HD or wherever, look at the tubs, write a name down you think it just might be,(making sure you are honest in saying this looks caparable) the amount of water it will hold, then, the gallon capacity of the heater and give it to her. Make a few additional notes:

1. Maybe, turning up the temp on the heater
2. and, whatever else you are thinking of doing

Maybe, too, she is not realizing, if other family members are using it prior, or during she is bathing, she might not have the hot water she wants. She honestly, may not realize this.

I know, sometimes, I am soaking, and, wham! hot water is gone. One son turned on the dishwasher, other son turned on the washer, thinking they are helping; little, do they realize I have to get out cause I am freezing to death. * Maybe, they do realize this, and why they do it! lol.

Plus, one other factor, she should realize, that nothing is perfect. She may be laying in the tub, and keep running it over and over, if that is the case, I would think---correct me, if I am wrong, but, it takes a while for it to recoup.

I would check my caller ID, and if I saw her number come up, I wouldn't answer it, lol. I would hide...

turn up the heat

she only has a 50 gal ele....

probably a 90 gallon tub......

the only way you could make her happy is tell

her to turn up the thremostats to high to accomidate

the bath tub....

I am sure the GE unit is set at 110, which is really LOW--almost luke-warm...
and the plumber wont turn it up to 145 avoid liability....


so she has to turn it up at her own risk or buy an 80 gallon electric out of her own pocket....





that is her choice
0

Is this a jetted tub by any chance? Adding cool air is an even quicker way to drop the water temperature in the tub. What about an inline heater? I don't see anyway a 50 gal electric water heater can keep up with a 90 jetted tub.....

Just for the heck of it, I checked my heater, I think it is set on 120. That is fine by me. I get no complaints from the kids either. Plus, I have my little buddy come over, and let him sail his boats in it, I got jets.

Maybe, turn hers up to 120?

YES, I looked at the job order carefully, and it IS jetted. My Kohler Infinity was jetted (4) and I remember --as soon as I turned on the jets the temp went down noticably.

As far as the perceived lack of knowledge, I must admit it is me alone, not the plumbers, techs or owner. I am using whatever resources I can think of to try to help the next plumber that goes out there. It went something like this...


I got lost on the manufacturer sites and instead looked for a plumbing forum where I could ask for advice, thinking maybe someone already knows what I need....and here I am.

I have been helped a lot here, and am very appreciative of all the replies in such a short time. The job is not till Wednesday and I never expected to have my problem basically solved in less than 3 hours! I'm not a plumber, I do all the scheduling, rescheduling, talk to customers all day, talk to the plumbers & techs as well, order and receive parts, and make sure incoming invoices are complete and ready for data entry. We have 2 plumbers (one does boilers as well), one heating tech, and 3 apprentices in various stages, so yes we are small.

Someone gave me a clue and pointed me to this:
http://waterheating.rheem.com/Documents/ResourceLibrary/TSB_Common/1213.pdf

What a find! That will help a lot also.

This is more of a customer service issue, and it's kid gloves time. She's not very nice to me on the phone either. I think the fastest way I can make this go away (I have to deal with her complaints) is to facilitate her learning and understands the facts.

~~Cynthia

sounds good. It is true that someone has to help the client come to the realization that the builder didn't rightsize the tank.

david

I agree. I think it's also possible that since this was a resale, not a new home, that the tub was put in after market by the sellers, and never considered in the original plan. That would certainly explain how a too small capacity tank ended up trying to fill that tub.

Cynthia,

Make her print outs, alot of information, even information overkill~~

This might be something she might want to take up with the builder?
Maybe, it is their turn to listen to her and put her in a bigger heater, which might be only fair to her?

I got jets, and I got to tell you, I never noticed the water being cooler when they are running. My little neighbor, Taz, and I sail out boats alot on Saturdays, with jets running full for the waves, lol, and, I never noticed that it was cooler. I make it warm for him. But, I am not a plumber either.

I just saw it was a resale. In that case, I wonder what else could be done? Maybe, just tell her, she will either have to buy a bigger heater, or add one more, having 2? Or else, just live with it, and good luck on telling her that one, LOL.

Cookie, we have tried to explain it to her twice!

Here's my latest idea, I was typing as you were suggesting the same thing!

Information, and a lot of it.

I have that print out, fabulous document, this will help Rick a lot, it's basically exactly what he asked for. I don't want to ignore the other valuable information here....I want to make a list of all the variables that combined are causing her grief.

Besides the fact that her WH is undersized...these items are factors:

1) What temperature the tank is set at, ---we cannot turn up over 120..

2) GE is not a great Water Heater brand, and the tank is aging (08/99 per Lancaster, thanks!)

3) The jets cause the temperature to go down immediately.

4) .....

5) .....


THIS link might help, I can email it to her in case she is interested:

Want help figuring out the right gallon capacity for your family?
http://www.geappliances.com/smartwater/heaters/index.htm
Use our gallon capacity calculator.

PLACEHOLDER ---- First Hour Delivery:
http://waterheating.rheem.com/Documents/ResourceLibrary/TSB_Common/1213.pdf

And there's this: Water Measurement Units and Conversion Factors
http://pods.dasnr.okstate.edu/docushare/dsweb/Get/Document-2216/F-1501web.pdf
...and a 5 gallon bucket!

Those are some ideas I have right now. I am also going to prime Rick to explain that yes, it's a terrible thing, but it's not the insurance company's fault, nor is it their responsibility to replace and upgrade a perfectly working water heater. I just talked to John, he said Robert did replace the dip tube, so there was something wrong in the beginning.

Can anyone tell me the date from the serial number? I'm not familiar with GE's codes.

I am going to drive 55 miles now to see my first grandchild for the second time! Sunday, I will come back and reread everything to find the nuggets I missed.

Thank you all so very much for your help. If it's ok with a majority, I might come back and hang out a bit, I see I can learn a lot here simply reading old posts and watching new threads unfold.

~~Cynthia


EDIT NOTE TO SELF:

I think it sounds good Cynthia, the plumbers here can give you a better opinion than mine, but, to me, it sounds good. How long ago, was it repaired? Any idea how old it is maybe, just in case, it can't be determined by a serial number?

What if her solutions could be listed.

Seeing your grandchild, that is nice, I am waiting on those days. For now, I got a 6 year old, neighbor, who makes me macaroni necklaces (which I wear to work) complete with a macaroni ring. I love it better than any diamonds. My coworkers want to eat it. I tell them they are jealous.

Good luck to you, you got to let us know the results of your endeavor with the woman with the too big tub, and too small heater.

*If you told her twice, you might have to tell her again. In my line of work, I got to repeat myself sometimes, so badly, I feel like I am part parrot, lol.
So, what I do, when researching something, is to gather alot of information, which I store in files for different things at later dates. That way, I can elimate having to go back. In your line of work, with customer service, that is a difficult job. Dealing with the public is one of the hardest jobs, plus, when money is involved, WOW, it can get real steamy. I deal with facts, which can ruffle alot of people's feathers, but, I try to be very diligent, honest, fair, so, I can still wear my girlscout uniform, lol. I always, try to be nice. When someone is like the woman you are suggesting with her attitude, I found the best route to go, is to say very very little; let her blow off steam, let her talk. Hoping at some point, she will stop and be nice back to you, which she should be. I have also, reminded people of having manners, and believe it or not, that works alot of times. I tell them softy, not to raise their voice at me, or shout at me, or it will be an automatic disconnect. And, I always stick to my promised, I will, and have gently put the phone on its cradle, or touched the red button to hang up. Amazingly, if you don't answer the phone, when they call back right away which they will, because you just ruffled their feathers; if you wait a while, they then, had a few moments to calm down, to think, and be nice. Just something I learned on my travels.

Per the serial number,manufacture date 08/99