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Thread: Shallow well

  1. #1

    Default Shallow well

    This is a great site, I have been reading all the posts and replies about shallow wells. I am interested in putting in a driven well to water the lawn. I live in upstate NY Saratoga Springs. The Idea I have is to install a shallow well in the basement, there are provisions already in place for a sump pump (a plastic type bucket in the floor) The basement is dry and never had a problem with moisture. I would like to cut a holt in the bottom of the bucket and use this as a starting point since I am already down 8+ feet. The soil conditions on top are really sandy down to about 8 feet not sure after that.

    My questions are
    1 The screen size for the points around here at all the local shops are 80 guage. 1 1/4" So my choices are limited unless I order one. Most are of the 3 foot variety, but I found one that is a 5 footer. The 5 foot point would be my first choice, I think!

    2 The couplings. I know I need to use a drive coupling, can I take off the drive coupling when it is in the ground and install a regular coupling, or do I need to use a new drive coupling for every new section of pipe. I have a home brew post pounder and a 8 pound sledge.

    3 For pipe should I use black iron or galvinized pipe hot dip or cold and what the heck is the difference!

    I have tried to find some of the old timmers around to get there input as to how far down ill have to go to get water. Nobody around here is on a piont we have city water. The terrane slopes down hill from my house to a creek that is about 150 yards at most away and is about 30 feet lower. I dont know what that means just thought id through that in there?

    Any suggestions are welcome to help keep me on the right track.
    As I get going on this project I am sure ill be asking many more questions.
    Thank You
    Byron

  2. #2
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    The first thing I would do is ask around and see if anyone has gotten water at depths where a driven well would work. Also, do you have rock at shallow depths, which would prevent driving a point?

  3. #3

    Default shallow well

    No rocks. I have asked every where I go even on the radio where I am a ham. Nobody has any info.
    Byron

  4. #4
    Sprinkler Guy Wet_Boots's Avatar
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    There are building codes to consider, when thinking of installing a shallow well point indoors. I've seen official language that expressly forbids having this sort of water supply in a dwelling, and if push came to shove, the homeowner in violation doesn't have a leg to stand on.

  5. #5
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    Hi Byron,

    Your right to want the longer point. Eighty gauze is equivelent to a seven slot screen which would give far more water than the gauze screen would in the proper aquifer. Either one is a very fine screen and will screen our very fine sand. If you knew what the sand looked like you could select the proper screen for the job. This is not a luzury with driven wells though. The sump pit may not be a good place to start in case you ever need to install a sump pump. You can bust a small hole in the basement floor anywhere that is convenient to install the well.

    Trial and error is usually the method since nobody seems to know what to expect in your area any more than I would. I do recommend the galvanized 1-1/4" pipe, drive couplings at every joint, pipe butted together at every joint and a post driving hammer over the sledge. You will just break things with a sledge hammer.

    When you get it in, get with me and I will sell you a great pump for the job. Be sure to have a Pitcher Pump to check for water at each 5' joint as they go in.

    Good luck,

    bob...
    KF4MM
    73

  6. #6

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    Yes, I have called city hall for info, as long as it is only for watering a lawn not a problem, I have also spoken to the cheif building inspector about it as well. no problem.
    Byron

  7. #7

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    Speedbump, the 5 foot point is what I thought would be a good choice. And thanks for the coupling advie. And the local rental yard has the post driver with the guide in the middle, mine doesnt have the guide, is it really that big of a concern.
    73's
    Byron KC2KOH

  8. #8
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Sounds like your depth to water or static water level is going to be around 30' using the creek as a referance.If your water level is that deep you are going to need a jet assembly in that well so I would go with 2" galvanized pipe so it will fit in the well.You will need drive couplings on every length of pipe you drive. Also go with a 10 slot V Wire stainless well screen. Stay away from those gauze or mesh types they dont have as much entrance area as the V wire screens. Check out johnson well screens on the net to get a better idea. You have to check with your local board of health about where you can put this well.

    SAM

  9. #9
    Sprinkler Guy Wet_Boots's Avatar
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    If the water level is going to be 30 feet, then there won't be any great advantage to installing a point indoors. That extra few feet means less when you use a deep-well pump on the point. You might appreciate having the vertical room to set up a drop-weight rig to pound in the point.

  10. #10
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Even with the depth to water at 22' from the basement floor its hard to say what your drawdown is going to be like so i would be prepared to use a deep well jet assembly. I would go with wetboots suggestion and pound the point out side. Your neighbors will see what your doing and hopefuly will want to get in on it which means less pounding for you. Thats a hunch but it would be nice!

    SAM

  11. #11

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    I am interested in how a drop point rig is constructed, If it is easy to construct I would consider building one. My buddies are willing to help install the driven point there will be 3 of us.
    Byron

  12. #12
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    And the local rental yard has the post driver with the guide in the middle, mine doesnt have the guide, is it really that big of a concern.
    Yes it is a big concern. If you hit the pipe with a sledge hammer you won't hit it square each time. This is what breaks threads. The slide hammer (for a lack of another word) hits the same way each time and the hit is square putting equal force on all areas of the pipe and threads. It is also safer. The one I built recently has a 1" solid bar that goes into the pipe and is long enough that the stroke up and down won't allow the bar to come out of the pipe while driving. You could impale yourself with a shorter one on a big stroke.

    I have about 20 three foot SS slotted well points here if your interested. I have 10, 12, 18 and maybe one bigger one. I would do like Sammy said and stay with the 10 slot. A 12 or larger might be too big for the material you encounter and you would have a sand pumper.

    bob...

  13. #13

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    Ok so ill rent the slide hammer, and the 10 slot, should that be a 2 inch diameter or 1 1/4 in the previous threads it was suggested to use 2 inch pipe. I am interested in the 10 slot on your recommendation. Also The 80 gauge SS point I found at the local store is a 5 footer. What is your price for the 10 slot 3 footer, what is your opinion about the length of the point to use.

    Byron


    I have about 20 three foot SS slotted well points here if your interested. I have 10, 12, 18 and maybe one bigger one. I would do like Sammy said and stay with the 10 slot. A 12 or larger might be too big for the material you encounter and you would have a sand pumper.

    bob...[/QUOTE]

  14. #14
    Sprinkler Guy Wet_Boots's Avatar
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    It's a 2-inch point, because you'll be using a convertible jet pump, with a packer assembly inside the point. This is more expensive than a shallow-well jet pump, but the only practical way to deal with deeper water tables. (this expense may be one reason why you don't see neighbors with well points)

  15. #15
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    With the 10 slot you will get around 10 to 15 gpm in a good vein. That's pretty good for a 1-1/4" or 2" well. The two inch wells I drilled used 1-1/4" screens so they could be pulled and replaced when they plugged up. Doing one that way takes a lot more work and is much better done with a drilling rig. Since you don't have the rig. You would be driving the point attached to the pipe. I can say, driving a 2" is going to be much harder than driving the 1-1/4". And it all depends on what kind of material your going through.

    The screens I have I will sell for $45.00 each. I believe they usually bring around $75.00 or more these days. Sammy would know better than me. I haven't used one for over 25 years. These belonged to my dad when he retired and he wanted me to dispose of them.

    bob...

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