Main line leak

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mackenzi25

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We were just notified by the water company that are usage went up 4X over the last month. They checked the meter and it continues to run despite no water in the house. When I shut off the water valve coming into the house the meter still runs although very slow. It looks like there is a small leak from the meter into the house.

My question is what is the best way to approach this and the cost of doing this? Who should we contact to make this repair? What makes things more difficult is we just put our home on the market. Is this going to be covered by homeowners insurance?
 

Gary Swart

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It sounds like you have a serious leak in the water line from the meter to the house. That much water should make the ground wet. This is your problem to fix and to pay for. The city's responsibility ends after the meter. These lines can be quite deep especially if you live where there is danger of freezing. For example, my line is 5 feet deep! That's a lot of digging in the mud. My advice is to contact a plumbing contractor. It won't be cheap, it's obviously a labor and equipment intensive job.
 

Mike Swearingen

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Before you hire a contractor, try to find the leak yourself.
With ALL of the water off at the house, first thoroughly check your toilets, under the house if over a crawlspace or basement, and the ground between the meter and the home for wet spots. As you know, check the leak indicator on the meter (usually a small triangle...it spins when a faucet is open, and moves very slowly when there is a steady leak...if no movement at all, no leak).
I'm a real estate broker, and recently had an absentee seller tell me that she had received a huge monthly county water bill for her vacant home here "for sale". It too was for about 4X her usual water bill. I went to her property and checked all around the house and found an upstairs toilet running. (Some people use toilets for any and everything sometimes when I'm showing homes to them, would you believe.) I don't recall that I may even have heard that toilet flush while talking somewhere else to the other spouse. In any case, I turned the shut-off valve off to that toilet, and she's called a plumber to replace about $8 worth of new flapper and fill valve.
She was glad to hear that a toilet was all that it was. No damages.
Good Luck!
Mike
 

Cass

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Sounds like you may have a leak in the house and out. Fix all inside leaks first ie. running toilets, dripping faucets, ect. Then check the meter again.

Is your home a slab or a basement? If slab you could have a slab leak in conjunction with a bad shutoff valve.

What year was your home built?
 
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Cookie

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Just in the event someone doesn't know, some gas companies offer these services. Of course, I have some of them. The Water Heater Repair and Replacement Program is new. For the rest of the services, my total bill per month is 16 bucks. So far, I have used the In Home Electric Repair Program 3 times in 2 years. That paid for it, in itself. They replaced an outlet, a bathing ceiling fan, and a kitchen ceiling fan light and wires. They sent out a nice company. It might be a good way for a plumber to break into the field??

Water line Preferred Restoration
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In-Home Electric Line Repair Program
Water Heater Repair and Replacement Program


http://retail.dom.com/products/warranty/water_heater.jsp
 

mackenzi25

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Thanks for the help

Our house in small and includes a basement. The meter is about 20 feet from the house and after the line crosses under the sidewalk, our lawn in built on a hill and we live in Salt Lake City where freezing is a definate possibility. The line could be anywhere from 6 feet or lower. We have not seen any moisture in the lawn but this may be related to the depth of the line.

I'll trying turning off all lines in the house and a leaking main line may be possible but when I turn off the main valve the triangle keeps spinning at a low rate. I don't want to just start digging up the lawn especially with the house on the market. We will call some professionals to come out and give a quote.

Anyway to locate the leak without digging up the entire lawn? What ballpark figures are we looking at to fix this $1000, $3000, $5000?

Thanks
 

Leejosepho

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mackenzi25 said:
Anyway to locate the leak without digging up the entire lawn?

After completing your careful check of everything you *can* see, go get a couple of 4' lengths of 5/8" or 3/4" dowel rod and do some poking around. Working toward the house, I would begin near the meter and drive a dowel about three feet or so into the ground, then pull it out and see how wet/damp the end of it might be. At the very least, and for about $5.00 and a hour or so of work, you might find out whether any leak is closer to the house or the street.

Note: There is a remote possibility you might bump into a gas or phone line, so just move over a bit rather than trying to drive through any obstruction you might hit.
 

Roy Nakamura

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Ah....like Mike said above. From the Landlord's perspective since the renters don't pay the water bill they generally don't care if the water is leaking. I had a water bill ...yeah about four times the usual (and here's the kicker...the City of Los Angeles has an excess sewer charge fee if the use is excessive). I asked the tentants the stop all usuage of water while I check to see if the water meter is moving. Sure enough it was. Found the leak...a renter had jerryrigged the toilet handle (because he had broken it) and the water was constantly doing down the flapper. The $15 fix cost me over $300 is excess water charges.
 

mackenzi25

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More info

The house was built in 1945. I turned off the main line again and turned off the valves to all the sinks, toliets, showers, etc and the triangle is still spinning. I get a dowel and see if I can poke around but it is amazing that there is zero water in the yard and this has been going on for 2 months.
 

hj

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The problem with those services is that the homeowner pays a set price per month, so unless you have a huge customer base so that the ones without problems pay for those that do, you will lose money very quickly.
 

Bob NH

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mackenzi25 said:
Our house in small and includes a basement. The meter is about 20 feet from the house and after the line crosses under the sidewalk, our lawn in built on a hill and we live in Salt Lake City where freezing is a definate possibility. The line could be anywhere from 6 feet or lower. We have not seen any moisture in the lawn but this may be related to the depth of the line.

Thanks

A 1 gallon per minute leak, 6 ft down, will not show up in the lawn. It will waste 43,000 gallons of water per month, which is probably 5 times what you normally use.

First, prove to yourself that the leak is not IN the house, by shutting off the main valve where the water comes in and checking the meter. After you shut off the line, make sure it is off by opening the highest faucet in the house. You should get no water after a couple of minutes.

When you are satisfied that the leak is outside, forget finding the leak and just get the pipe replaced.

The meter is 20 ft from the house. Replacing 20 ft of pipe is probably less expensive than finding the leak in the old pipe.

If the pipe is the one that was installed in 1945, then it is probably very rusty steel pipe that has lived longer than its expected lifetime.
 
R

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mackenzi25 said:
When I shut off the water valve coming into the house the meter still runs although very slow. It looks like there is a small leak from the meter into the house.
I'm guessing that you weren't able to completely close the shut off valve, so don't concentrate on the pipe from the meter to the house, instead put food coloring in the toilet tanks and if it shows up in the bowls without flushing, you have a leaky toilet.

Rancher
 

mackenzi25

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Valve turned off

I turned of the valve and drained all the faucets so that there was no water coming into the house. The meter was still moving at the exact same rate as before and this does have me concerned about a main line leak. I'll also try the food dye trick but I think I may be heading towards an expensive repair. Is there a way to make sure the main valve is completely turned off?
 

Jadnashua

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Replace the main shutoff! If you have it turned off and the meter is still turning, the leak is between the meter and the valve. It is not uncommon for a main shutoff to not actually turn off after (in your case) over 60-years. Things get corroded, any washers disintegrate, etc. If you are not getting any flow from the faucets you did open, and the meter is still indicating flow, something between the meter and that open, but not flowing faucet is leaking.
 

Bob NH

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To test the main valve:

First open the valve again and get water running throughout the house.

Then, open ONLY the HIGHEST faucet in the house. That is usually a lavatory or kitchen faucet on the highest floor. You want to open the highest faucet so the test is not affected by water dribbling from higher pipes.

If water stops coming out of that faucet when you close the main valve, then the main valve is closing. If there is a pipe higher than that faucet it may dribble out for a couple of minutes, but it should stop.

If water continues to come out of that facuet after 2 minutes, then the main valve is not closing tightly. That DOES NOT mean that you have an internal leak, such as in a toilet or outside faucet.

But if the main valve IS closing tightly, and the meter is still moving, you almost certainly have a leak between the meter and the main valve.
 

Cookie

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Well, I did talk to the electrician HJ, I think the 3 rd time he came out; and I asked him, if I can call him direct. Now, the way he explained it to me, was he can only take jobs through our gas company. Plus he is very very busy. So, he is under contract to them.

I pay for the electric service warranty per month just 3.25. I can't buy a cup of coffee that cheap. Each service is really a different price, some 2.25, the total is 16 a month. I don't pay for the restoration services, or the heating and cooling, since my furnace is new. Restoration is just throwing dirt and grass seed down, when they are finished digging, if need be. I can do that. For someone like me, who only knows ( but learning) a hammer from a screwdriver it is a good thing. If they screw up, they come back out, at no cost to me.

They have added the water heater repair and replacement. It is not in my area yet, not in my state. It will be around 3 a month. Wow. Think about it? It is an older water heater, maybe around well, I could be wrong, so won't say, but, not ancient but, not young like me. :)

I will pay 3 a month. If it needs fixed, I call them. It it needs replaced they will do it. It it is a crappy job, they are responsible. All I do, is use the water to take a hot bath, I don't care where it comes from, or how it gets there; just so it does.

I am waiting HJ, on the grandaddy of it all. The toilet. I will pay, 50 a month, for warranty on that gem. :D

I like these programs. They work for me. And, it they are hiring people or businesses under contract to do the work, their is a big need for electricians, and plumbers. I would think a good start...but, I am not a plumber, for if I were, my toilet would still not be leaking.

I have no idea---why homeowners pass this up.

I watched a neighbor's driveway roll down into her yard, when the pipe broke, with my kid on a sled yet. Now, she paid for that. Now, if my pipe breaks and my kids rolls down on the sled, he is stupid for he is too old now, lol, but, I don't pay a dime. I like that. Call it peace of mind. But, I don't have to find someone to call, I don't have to determine who do I call? I just dial one number and go back to bed.

I think, those warranty programs, are the best thing since, indoor plumbing. Bet you never heard that one before, eh? :)
 

Gary Swart

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It is certainly possible, even probable, that the main valve is not shutting off 100%. However, if you have closed all of the stop valves on fixtures in the house and checked for a running toilet, but the meter still turns, there is no where else the leak can be except in the line coming from the street. Since this pipe is over 60 years old and it is almost certainly galvanized steel and has rusted out.
 

Cass

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If your house was built in 1943 the water line is most likey galvanized pipe and with the corrosion that will be on the outside of the pipe it probably won't be repairable. I suggest you replace the whole line. Get a few estimates.
 

Cookie

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I am just curious, just how much would something like that maybe, cost to replace?
 
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