Sidework?

Plumbing! Schlumbing!

Everything that has been said in this thread, both yay or nay, applies to any outside work. A good handyman has to be adept at carpentry, electrical, drywall, painting, plumbing, and so on. If you feel confident doing these other things, then, you run into the same dilemma of whether to have insurance, whether to be licensed, and so forth. I know people who have cut off their fingers with a circular saw. I don't know anyone who has been badly injured doing plumbing. A stiff neck maybe.

side jobs

Our comments apply to ALL work done outside a legitimate contracting business. Insurance, licensing, bonding, usually apply to all trades and are for the protection of both the consumer and the contractor.

Plumbing, schmumbing, gas explosions sure as hell hurt people. You get a stiff neck watching the house go into orbit. If a handyhacker or sidejobber wants that on his conscience, go for it. How about the developmentally disabled girl killed by CO in Indiana the other day? Nah, bad plumbing doesn't hurt people. Cutting corners on plumbers doesn't cost money, it pays. Not.

kordts said:

Plumbing, schmumbing, gas explosions sure as hell hurt people. You get a stiff neck watching the house go into orbit. If a handyhacker or sidejobber wants that on his conscience, go for it. How about the developmentally disabled girl killed by CO in Indiana the other day? Nah, bad plumbing doesn't hurt people. Cutting corners on plumbers doesn't cost money, it pays. Not.

Click to expand...

I knew someone would misunderstand. I said the same thing HJ said, but not as eloquently. BTW, I've had to re-do a lot of plumbing done by hack licensed plumbers. So, the knife cuts both ways.

I hope as a newbie here I'm not out of line. If I am please accept my apologies. Wouldn't a typical 'side-job' be something small in nature such as replacing a value stem/washer or swapping a toilet out rather than doing black steel work?

Anyway...one thing I have noticed in my many years as a Handyhacker is that there are some plumbers (who could have very well been a handy hacker) that had no problem hogging out a floor joist to run a 3" drain or notching out a huge gap in a load bearing stud/beam/joist during a copper repipe.. Just my observation. Okay...the beam hogger outer must of been a drunk handyhacker

work

Being a journeyman, or having a contractor's license does not make a person an artist, but neither does being a handyman, or doing handyman work. Sidejobs are any work done outside the person's normal employment, and can range from replacing a washer to plumbing a house, (for cash). ANY work such as this, since it is considered not to have a contract, is legally undefensible. The courts have held that persons who do this type of work have NO legal right to be paid, and the customer can refuse to pay without recourse. This, along with the liability from a lack of insurance and possibly bonding, and possible job termination, can offset any additional income the sidejobber makes.

Hj...thanks for the explanation. I know here in California the state is not sympathetic to the unlicensed tradesmen. I’ve wondered how handyman companies like “Rent a Husband†or “Handyman Services†work around the dollar limits imposed by the State.

I’m an engineer by profession … but I did take some masonry courses at night for fun about 20 years ago. It was taught by a Union Mason and he lectured us about the downside of doing side jobs. The worst was that if another Union Mason spotted you he could report you to the hall. He said that many Union Masons would do sidework during the weekend…but typically not in the front yard where they could be easily spotted. It’s interesting today that there are virtually no union masons doing residential work today here is So Cal. True the guy I hire to do a retaining wall is licensed and bonded…but the guy who is actually slapping the mud and laying the stone doesn’t speak English and is happy to work on Sunday. Sort of sad…

Most unions after you retire and receive a pension.......if you get caught doing what you did for a living with the union, you lose that pension.

That's pretty common around here. My dad was told that as a union carpenter. Start framing houses or remodeling and you'll be using that money instead of the pension.

I can't cater to that. If someone does what they love and did for a living....they shouldn't be forced to stop; that pension money? That's your money ffs!

unions

that pension money? That's your money ffs!

Try telling that to my Dad, or me. They give you what they want to, regardless of what you contributed over the years.

That's true

Before I lost one of my parents they had an option of what way the tides would divide.

My dad if he chose a certain way.......would retain most of it. If he chose a different way........30%.

Unbelievable.

I'm "still" on the bench at my local union......it will always be that way so they don't get sued for discrimination which it really is.

bench

I'm "still" on the bench at my local union......it will always be that way so they don't get sued for discrimination which it really is.
As a "traveler" the local union tried to put me there also, but the company would not let them and said they would lay off all the local union help if they kept trying.

It would all depend on what your employer's company does... if there's a job that is something the company would normally do then I'd say that as an employee it is your responsability to pass that job on to the company (unless it's for your immediate family). Other than that, you're giving up your free time and family time for a few bucks. If you're going to do the work then you need to be legal. At least get a contractor's license. If you are not a master plumber then you can not legally do certain things, e.g. new plumbing... only repair work or drain cleaning...and that may be depending on where you are. I started out much like you except that I never worked for a plumbing company but was doing all the plumbing & repair work for mom's rental properties and kind of grew from there and got my plumbing license. Now I live out on a lake far from town and am constantly competeing with hacks and cut throats and handymen...and do a heck of alot of handyman work...always correcting other's mistakes, carpenters and electricians especially!!!! I'm quick to tell people that I'm not a "handyman" ... I'm a "professional handyman"... if they don't want to pay "professional" prices for professional quality work then they need to get someone else.... I've pissed off a few big time contractors who are getting houses plumbed for $300 per fixture...and that includes the materials!!!!!....plumbers with their own business clearing about $10/hour...doing chump work on high dollar vacation homes.... INSANE!!!!... my feeling is that if they can afford such a house they should be willing to pay quality prices for a job comparable to the price of home they're building...not a cheap house, not cheap plumbing, not a cheap plumber... I'd rather work one or two days a week for $50-60 per hour than five days a week for $10 per hour.... compared to the big cities an hour's drive away I'm still very cheap....but pretty high for the locals and judging from the quality of work I've seen in these houses I'm well worth every penny that they don't pay me to not do the job they won't hire me for.

Hmm....may I comment on a couple of points here?

I am one of two owners of a plumbing and drain cleaning company. I'm also a licensed residential builder (michigan).

At the plumbing company, I've fired many guys for doing side-jobs. How did they come by the side jobs? By talking to people while in uniform and giving out their phone numbers. They were taking potential customers from my business, agreeing to work they're not licensed to do. I paid for the advertising, I paid for the vehicles they drove around town for work, I paid for the gas/insurance/logos ect. My partner is a UNION plumber. He spent MANY (and you know what I'm talking about) hours earning his status. These guys were using our blood, sweat and tears to make themselves a few bucks.

You may think you're doing it honestly, but if the referrals came about because you work for ______ Plumbing company - you're cheating your boss. All it takes is one of your customers calling your boss because they lost/want your personal number, and the jig is up.
FYI, if you live in Michigan - the law allows your boss, the person you're doing the side-job for, and the STATE to sue you. The state can also toss you in jail for a while.


There was a question about how handyman companies can get past the $$ law about licensing - here's a couple of things I've learned over the years:

a- they bill everything seperately, underneath the $$ level
b- they have MA licenses (Maintenance & Alteration License, allows you to specialize in 2-3 areas, depending on state license laws, no price ceiling)
c- they don't care.

State laws penalize licensed contractors more harshly than unlicensed. For example: In Michigan, if I were to do work for you for $800 and I DON'T pull a building permit, I can be fined for up to $10,000 and up to 5 yrs in jail. If a non-licensed person does the same thing, he gets hit with a $500 fine. period.


"And away goes troubles down the drain." tm