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Thread: well water treatment? Please help.

  1. #91
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    If you are getting sick from drinking this water,like i said before,start with a full water analysis. You will need an analysis anyway if you want to treat this water.
    Here is a man I plan to have help with my own water testing, Daisy:

    www.cleanairpurewater.com/water_test_kits.html

    I have read his "water guide", and he and I have exchanged a few e-mails. He arranges for testing at a professional lab, and he only charges what the lab charges him plus a consultation fee for talking with him after the results have been sent both to him and to the client. Maybe he could be helpful to you.

  2. #92

    Default Iron bacteria in wells

    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy
    When I installed my new pump and pressure tank I noticed that the old pump was totally clogged with bacterial iron. I put some bleach into the well and it cleared up for about 10 days. I also have a septic tank. My question is-- Is there anything that can treat the water in the well that is safe for a septic tank?
    I happened to run across this thread and it mentioned our products, so I think a reply is necessary due to some misinformation.

    The original question of this thread was: What to do about IRB clogging? Daisy is correct in wanting something to clean the water in the well. This is the ONLY place to get rid of the iron bacteria. All above ground systems treat EVERY gallon of water pumped. They do not protect the pump or the distribution line to the first filter, water softener or whatever. They soon clog themselves. It is also a fact that more bacteria are present in the water post filter than in front of it. Obviously Daisy had a pump problem that required a replacement. It takes 30 seconds for the new pump to start building up layers of IRB residue. The industry BAT's that are discussed are to put chlorine in the well. This is a temporary fix that makes the problem worse. You have to understand how iron bacteria lives and grows to see that the problem can be eliminated very easily and cheaply. IRB uses the iron in the water as a food source. The EPA calls it a nuisance bacteria because it is not harmful to drink. The living organisms secret a slime that aids in extracting the iron. As the colonies grow and die, they form layer after layer of dead cells. This looks like orange grit and it can become very hard. It is like a honeycomb inside. There is very little IRB floating freely in the water. That is why most water tests do not show the bacteria and are useless. The "clog" is the bacteria home similar to sea coral. This harbors other bacteria that IS harmful. When a well is dosed with chlorine, hardly ever is the correct amount used to totally clean the well. A huge amount of chlorine is needed to kill all the bacteria and the contact time would be at least 24 hours. You would have to pump to waste for hours to get the chlorine out of the well so you could drink it. With the increasing use of down the well cameras, it is shown that the chlorine pellets that are dropped in the well just collect on the bottom and little dissolve at the water temperature. The one gallon chlorine treatment per week that most sites recommend will eliminate some of the slime layer. This frees bacteria in the colonies to migrate to other areas in the well and pipes. If you are really concerned about your health, you would never use chlorine indiscriminately because of the trihalomethane residue.

    To clear up some comments about our products: It is not a chlorinator. We treat only the water in the well column so the amount of Halosan is very little. Typical usage is to treat a well two times a day with a MEASURED amount of Halosan. This kills the slime outer layer, penetrates the honeycomb to kill the inner bacteria and also any floating bacteria including harmful bacteria such as the coliforms. It is certified by NSF for potable water. We can supply a system for the typical home owner for $1649 (much less than softener and filter systems) which uses about $130 per YEAR of Halosan (much less than a few months of chlorine tablets). We also have industrial and supply water systems. The installation is simple enough that home owners can do it. We "recommend" a plumber or well driller for local code compliance. We sell through distributors such as Home Depot Supply and independent water treatment specialists but the systems can be purchased directly from us.

    We have run into a lot of resistance from the water industry because of the vast amount of money they make in replacing clogged pumps and filters. Daisy is correct in that the IRB problem can only be solved inside the well and our system is the only one on the market that does it. Also to answer her other question, it is perfectly safe for septic tanks. You can learn more at www.berrysystemsinc.com.

  3. #93
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    I viewed your site. I see basically a swimming pool chlorinator feeding something directly into the casing of the well.

    What is this product that you inject into the well? Is it chlorine, acid or none of the above? Is this chemical harmful to metal, plastic or brass? How much must be injected to take care of Iron Bacteria in a normal installation per day/week/month?

    I have never heard of your product, so I am curious as to what it is. I can see how it is used, I just want to know more about the product itself.

    bob...

  4. #94
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    And he wants $1649 for the thing!!
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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    I'de say that is a substantial mark up. Since a pool chlorinator sells for around $79.99.

    bob...

  6. #96
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Any type of water treatment that can be sold at Home Depot to me is a bunch of crap. I wonder if they sell a backwash carbon filter and softener along with it? You can kill all the iron bacteria you want but it still needs to be filtered. Maybe i'm missing something here but this is only one part of the whole system that is needed.

    SAM

  7. #97
    DIY Member MaxBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    Any type of water treatment that can be sold at Home Depot to me is a bunch of crap...Maybe i'm missing something here...
    Now there's an enlightened perspective! I do believe the latter is true...

    You have to read Berry's story to learn he's distributing a product from Australia:

    http://www.biostatengineering.com/halovac.htm

    It seems "HaloSan" is just a new (U.S.?) name for the halovac sanitizer product--in any case it seems Berry Systems would do well to post the labeling for that product. I could not find any info at all on it or the NSF test results for it.

    If everything incl. the sanitizer is imported from down-under that would explain some of the cost wouldn't it.

  8. #98
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    It would depend on how proud they are of this product that supposidly sanitizes the well. Maybe it's like Prescription Medicine. You have to get your investment back, so everyone pays $30.00 for one little pill.

    I wonder what the inside of that casing looks like after 5 years of pouring this stuff down the well.

    bob...

  9. #99
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    I don't see where a filter of any kind is mentioned in his post or the web site as being part of the $1649 price. He must want a lot for the chemical because...

    He's using a disposable cartridge filter housing, turned upside down, that usually sells at retail for $15-25 plus maybe $10-15 of PVC plumbing materials. And his label.... but then there is some kind of motor/timer control and a flow switch or solenoid valve too.

    AND it can't be used with a pitless adapter or where freezing can be a problem so most of the US is not able to use the thing unless they somehow protect it from freezing which is very difficult to impossible in northern/snowy climates. Also, for twice per day dosing, you have to traipse out to the thing to replenish the chemical in the housing how often?

    I don't know how you get the housing apart without spilling chemical when the sump is upside down...

    Plus it has aesthetics problems sticking up on the well casing out in the yard. maybe he could paint it green for lawn installations and tan for the sand belt.

    I do like the powdered sanitizer and the constant timely dosing. Now IF you could get it inside the well casing, protected from freeze problems and say EASY once per month replenishing of the chemical... I could sell MANY of them.

    How would you keep your powder dry and yet add a certain volume to a water stream and time that for twice per day application? How would you store a month's supply of powder? How would all that fit in a casing without a pitless? Would it fit 4" and larger casings, with or without a pitless? And only for submersible pumps since it would require electric power at the casing; IOWs jet pumps are out, unless they had a pitless.

    If I think about this much more, I'll be losing sleep for the next few years.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  10. #100
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    I wonder if this guy sells magnetic water softening kits along with his chlorinator?

    SAM

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    Not to get off the original subject. A very wealthy customer was offered one of the nicest looking magnetic "water softeners" I have ever seen. I tried to talk him out of it, but $895.00 later, he found out just how great these things work. He then had us come out and install a water softener.

    bob...

  12. #102
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by speedbump
    What is this product that you inject into the well? Is it chlorine, acid or none of the above? Is this chemical harmful to metal, plastic or brass? How much must be injected to take care of Iron Bacteria in a normal installation per day/week/month?
    In response to some similar questions I had asked, here is some information e-mailed to me from Berry Systems about a month ago:

    Our system uses a bromine and chlorine compound which is in tablet form. The water runs over the tablets and erodes 1 to 3 parts per million which is deposited into the well to kill the bacteria in the well. One to three parts per million will not oxidize the minerals in solution. The pipes you see clogged on our website came out of our well house 6 years ago. We have never had another pump failure, and the water is pristine.

    The level of chemical in the well is controlled by the amount of time the system operates. For example, a 6" well with a 35' static level and a total depth of 150' and a pump which pumps 10 gallons of water per minute would be treated 1.7 to 3.4 minutes once per 12 hours. That is the amount of time it will take to impart 1 to 3 parts per million of the chemical into the well. This is checked empirically using a colorimetric test kit we provide with the unit. A 45 to 60 minute idle period is needed to give the drinking water treatment chemical to kill the bacteria in the well. This chemical kills all bacteria which do not have a spore in their life cycle, for example, cryptosporidium. To achieve the idle time, the system is normally set to run in the early hours like 2 am and then at 2 pm to operate after lunch or before children return from school or adults return from work. When I am home doing lots of laundry, I notice no impact from my water HaloVac system. I do what I wish when I wish and if the well has no idle time today it will tomorrow or tonight. No problem. Conversely, should you plan to be away for more than a day, turn the system off during this time to prevent over-treatment. This is a disinfection process as we are killing bacteria. Any disinfection process produces disinfection by-products some of which are thought to be carcinogenic at 80 ppb over a period of 70 years of exposure. This is true for the municipal water we all drink which must by law be disinfected. You may use activated carbon filtration to remove these compounds.

  13. #103
    DIY Member MaxBlack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho
    In response to some similar questions I had asked, here is some information e-mailed to me from Berry Systems about a month ago:
    Thanks for that. Some of y'all here love to trash new ideas, and it's an easy game to play. But the Aussies have some significant water problems, and some unique & creative solutions to those problems and I for one am interested in the kinds of things they are coming-up with...

  14. #104
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    This is not new technology. I have seen these pool chlorinators being installed in place of motorized Feed Pumps for many years. Its a very good way to allow people to put 3" tablets in with stabalizers and many other chlorine products that were never intended for drinking water. I will admit, I have never seen them used before to inject the chemical directly into the well

    The above is only a small part of the problem of putting chlorine or any other ozidizing chemical into a well. The chemicals will eat your casing if it's metal and anything else in the well including the pump.

    Trust me, this is not new technology, it's a rip off and a very expensive one at that.

    bob...

  15. #105
    In the Trades Bob NH's Avatar
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    The system described by treecutter is a periodic disinfection of the water in the well. The level of disinfection appears to be on the same order as treatment of water for potable use. I can't find it now but somewhere saw that it uses somewhere on the order of 1 to 3 mg/liter of a chlorine/bromine compound.

    If it is not acceptable to put the equipment at the head of the well, it would seem to be possible to put a liquid injection system at the point where the water enters a protected area and inject the disinfectant in liquid form through a small tube run with the water pipe.
    Last edited by Bob NH; 06-11-2007 at 06:37 AM.

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