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Thread: well water treatment? Please help.

  1. #31
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    I think that this water testing thing is being blown out of proportion.The question you have to ask is what is the reason for the extensive water testing? There are thousands of different things you can test for. Its obvious when you have iron bacteria in your well. What is the reason why you are going to test for giardia?? Is someone getting sick after drinking the water? I think its a waist of money unless you have reason to test for it. If someone came to me with asking for advice with an iron bacteria problem and i told them to test for giardia, i think theire first question would be,why? The right approach would be to do a standard analysis wich would include ecoli and coliform. If the test comes back positive for those bacterias then there might be a reason to test for giardia.Even then when those bacterias are killed by chlorinating the well the problem is resolved. If the lab is telling you that the substance that is plugging up the pump is giardia,then that well needs to be decommissioned until the source has been found and resolved because you have a serious waste problem.I cant believe that they are just assuming that you have giardia in the water without any testing. Id say go to a different lab and a do standard analysis which would include a bacteria test,find out your iron level,ph,hardness,tds,etc.

    SAM

  2. #32
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    What is the reason why you are going to test for giardia?? Is someone getting sick after drinking the water?
    Quote Originally Posted by Daisy
    Right now I have bottled drinking water delivered since the well water makes me sick ...

    I have been told by my County water lab that they do not do the kind of analysis that I need ...
    After a long conversation with them they say that it sounds as if I have Giardia in the well ...
    Ultimately being helpful to others first requires paying attention as we go along.

  3. #33
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Lee,
    you're right,i apologize daisy,i guess i did miss that. I would still just get a standard analysis which would indicate bacteria and waste contamination.

    SAM

  4. #34
    Rancher
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    I would still just get a standard analysis which would indicate bacteria and waste contamination.
    You probably would, however that will not detect the Giardia, which is not a bacteria, it is a parasite. And your a certified well guy, you should know that.

    Rancher

  5. #35
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Rancher,
    giardia,your right,it is a parasite and is found in animal and human waste.If you knew what to look for in a standard analysis there would be no argument. This is another classic example why you shouldn't try to question professional advice. In a standard water analysis they test for ecoli bacteria which is also found in human and animal waste also. If that is found in your well water its an indication of waste which might also mean that there could and most likely is giardia present. Both ecoli and giardia can be killed with bleach. Chlorination of the well needs to be done and then retest the water to make sure the ecoli is killed. I suggest retesting every so often to make sure that the bacteria is gone. If it returns the source of the of the problem needs to be found and rectified. So i guess once again its water well 101 for rancher.

    SAM

  6. #36
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Is it just me,or does anyone else see how rancher turns almost every thread into an argument because of his ignorance and lack of knowledge?? Am i missing something here??

    SAM

  7. #37
    Rancher
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    Sonny Giardia can live in water in the absense of feces... you should know that.

    Here you go from the CDC:

    "During the past 2 decades, Giardia infection has become recognized as one of the most common causes of waterborne disease (found in both drinking and recreational water) in humans in the United States . Giardia are found worldwide and within every region of the United States"

    Rancher

  8. #38
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    So rancher what is your point??Giardia is found in the intestinal track of humans and animals.So If your water is contaminated with feces that has giardia in it you probably have giardia in your drinking water. Rancher you seem like a disfunctional student that keeps thinking that he is ahead of his teachers. I think you better stop now because once again you are hanging from a thread.

    SAM

  9. #39
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    Is it just me,or does anyone else see how rancher turns almost every thread into an argument ... (editorial comment deleted)?? Am i missing something here??
    In my own opinion, yes: If I thought I might have a deadly or at least sickening-me parasite in my well, I would want to know about that specifically, and to then have a second test done to verify its absence after my well had been treated.

    This is only a guess on my own part here, but maybe Rancher and Daisy and I and even still others might happen to think alike along that particular line.

  10. #40
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Ok lee, go and find out what it takes and cost just to test for gardia and then come back and tell me if you would like to spend the 75.00 on a standard analysis that would include a test for ecoli and coliform.That is standard procedure that is recommended before spending more money than you have to. Find out the cost to take the sample,the delivery fee,and the laboratory testing. Ok i found some info on the topic. So read it your self.

    Giardia and Cryptosporidium
    If there is a problem concerning Giardia or Cryptosporidium, the Environmental Microbiology Laboratory is not certified to test for these organisms. Infection by Giardia is usually associated with surface waters. Most people do not drink the surface water in Kansas. It has been found that in Kansas; the focus of the majority of cases of Giardia are daycare centers, senior care centers and persons returning from other states having drank untreated surface water. Cryptosporidium is yet an unresolved problem of contamination. When testing drinking water for these protozoan organisms one must go to an out of state laboratory approved by the EPA. There are about 15 of these laboratories. It is possible, but unusual, to find a well which is positive for these parasites, but coliform negative. If there is a decision that testing is needed for either of these organisms or enteric viruses, one must consider these items:

    The cost of testing will include:

    rental and shipment of collection equipment,
    collecting between one liter to 2000 liters depending on the type of water,
    the shipment of the equipment and specimen back to the laboratory, and
    then the analysis of the sample. The cost may be around $700.00.

  11. #41
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    Ok lee, go and find out what it takes and cost just to test for gardia and then come back ...
    Whoa! Slow down just a bit, Sammy.

    Now that you, as a pro, have let me know, I might go with your suggestion if you can resolve this related dilemma:

    It is possible, but unusual, to find a well which is positive for these parasites, but coliform negative.
    Once again: Maybe some folks would just want to know for sure.

    Note: Helping others is not a combat sport.
    Last edited by leejosepho; 03-25-2007 at 05:33 AM.

  12. #42
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Lee,
    I'm trying to make a point here and i pulled up that info just to back up what i was saying. If one person told someone that the cost to do two giardia test was going to cost them close to 1400.00 dollars and then they got a second opinion with the second person saying that there is a less costly and more practical approach to this testing,where would that leave the first guy? With such a big difference in cost to do these tests i would think that most people would want to start by going the least expensive route,which would be the smart thing to do. This all started with a question about iron bacteria and turned into a giardia issue because someone at a lab told her there is giardia in her water. Coliform bacteria will cause someone to get sick as well. The proper approach is to get the water tested and also have the well inspected. Is the well on a farm,is it too close to a septic system,is there a broken well cap, or a water tight cap, is there a breach in teh well casing itself? You make it sound like im being out of line with suggestions but if you had to deal with these kinds of things on a regular basis you would think differently as to your approach. If i was a homeowner and someone came to me with that kind of figure to do water testing i think i would look into a cost of a new well. I totally understand the concern for peoples health but by taking the suggested course of action can save people alot of time and money.

    SAM

  13. #43
    Rancher
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    I've had Giardia... $700 would have been cheap as opposed to the weeks I spent trying to figure out what was wrong with me, it tends to hit you hard for a few days, then you get better, then it hits you hard again... this goes on and on until you figure out it wasn't something you ate.

    Rancher

  14. #44
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    Lee,
    I'm trying to make a point here ...
    Yes, and so am I.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    If one person told someone that the cost to do two giardia test was going to cost them close to 1400.00 dollars and then they got a second opinion with the second person saying that there is a less costly and more practical approach to this testing, where would that leave the first guy?
    That would be up to the customer, and it is not the responsibility of a "pro" to make that decision for the customer and try to make him or her accept it.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    With such a big difference in cost to do these tests i would think that most people would want to start by going the least expensive route ...
    If that would be sufficient, we agree. And to further support that less-expensive course of action, the pro with the second opinion could simply again mention what you had said about a chlorine treatment taking care of the Giardia along with whatever else.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    This all started with a question about iron bacteria and turned into a giardia issue because someone at a lab told her there is giardia in her water. Coliform bacteria will cause someone to get sick as well. The proper approach is to get the water tested and also have the well inspected.
    Until there might be some reason for me to believe otherwise, I accept your word on that.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    You make it sound like im being out of line with suggestions ...
    No, not once the relevant questions have been answered.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    ... if you had to deal with these kinds of things on a regular basis you would think differently as to your approach.
    Certainly, and now that the relevant questions have been answered, I already do.

    Quote Originally Posted by sammyhydro11
    If i was a homeowner and someone came to me with that kind of figure to do water testing i think i would look into a cost of a new well. I totally understand the concern for peoples health but by taking the suggested course of action can save people alot of time and money.
    Understood ... and the pro who quietly and factually conveyed that to me while answering my questions and overcoming any doubts or objections without attacking the other guy would likely get my business. But, maybe there are some customers who think much differently about that kind of thing.

  15. #45
    Previous member sammyhydro11's Avatar
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    Ok lee,
    sounds good. My suggestions and advice derive simply from experience.Mining companies spend a good amount of money doing test borings to determine the potential for gold. I guess they dont want to spend millions to find out there is nothing there just because somone found a spec of gold in a nearby stream. If you think someone should go with a giardia test before a standard bacteria test,well,thats your opinion, and thats fine. But dont go ripping apart my replies trying to make me into some kind of fluke becuase you seem to know one thing about the topic,giardia makes you sick. In every town where there is a hazardous waste clean up the EPA has to go to town meetings to explain to the public why hazardous waste are not going to pose a threat becuase people only see the potential threat but dont understand anything else about it. Its perfectly normal for the public to feel that way. When those meetings are over most people are calmed down and leave knowing that things are being handled in a certain way for a reason.Maybe there are people out there that can afford to do a giardia test right away but i'll tell you this, there are more people out there that cant. There are proper steps and procedures for these things and i'm one that follows them. If you still dont understand this whole thing and it still doesn't make sense to you,i hope you are not in the well business because by not having a proper understanding of it you could freak alot of people out.

    SAM

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