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Thread: Can I get a little help pretty please???????

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    Default Can I get a little help pretty please???????

    Hi,

    I got a couple of questions that I hope the educated people of this board can help me with. Im installing a basement bathroom and need some DWV help. Ive attached som pics to help explain. I am wondering if it would be a problem having the inlet of my ptrap using a street sanitary elbow while the output of the trap is just using a regular sanitary elbow. This makes the output side sit up just a little bit higher than the inlet side. I need this extra inch to maintain my downward slope tying into the main drain under the slab. I tested it with some water and it seemed to work ok but just wanna make sure. Like I said, it's only about an inch difference. The first two pictures are of the trap configuration. (the 1 1/2 opening that is coming straight out of the drain on the bottom is gonna be for a lavatory drain tie in and venting for the tub.)

    Also I have a problem with my 3" drain up above that is fed by the upstairs bathroom fixtures. The main drain that is running down thru the slab is not straight up and down but about an inch left of center, in other words its crooked. Because the bathroom partition is running right along side of it, this is causing a problem. The studs have clearance at the bottom of the drain but as the drain goes upwards it leans in towards the partition wall and will wind up impeding the sheet rock once it goes up at about 4 feet from the floor. So, I need to make it plumb by adding about an inch of horizontal run at the top where it elbows off. The problem is that the horizontal run at the top is only about 7 or 8 inches and that is not enough room for me to slip in two couplers with an extra inch of pipe. Is there anyway of doing this without cutting out that entire section of plumbing and redoing it? I measured how much I would gain by just slicing the horizontal run in half and putting in one coupler. I would only gain 3/8". Any suggestions. The last two pictures are of this problem.

    Thanks for any help you can give as I could really use it.

    Take care,
    Todd
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  2. #2

    Talking Nice try

    Ok, first lets start by taking those fittings back out and digging a little deeper hole. Why don't you tear that wood box form out also, gives you a little more room and no need adding termite food or somthing to rot. Looks like you have a sanitary tee laying on it's back for the lavatory drain, thats not to code in my area. Need to replace it with a combination wye-1/8 bend fitting. After that fitting you can not elbow up between the p-trap and its vent(creating an s-trap), you must continue with your 1/4" per foot grade directly to the p-trap. After the p-trap you can not elbow and run a distance horizontal like you have and elbow up again as you are creating a running trap or inline trap. Check the rough-in measurements of your tub, as most of them require the drain to come up just outside the wall not inside like you have it pictured.
    Actually if the tub needs to be roughed in where you have it, you will probly need to break some more floor up. You may need to offset the pipe over to one side or the other for the lavatory drain so you still have room for the p-trap to swing back around to the tub rough-in.


    On the 3" main drain.... 2 couplings and an elbow.... cut it in the middle of the horizontal run and again lower on the verticle and replace the elbow and the lengths of pipe needed to make it plumb. The use of a long sweep elbow might work also, or at least allow you to use only one coupling with it.

    good luck

    EDIT: after looking at your pic, "main drain #2" ... I can't believe you are not having any drainage problems with all the improperly installed sanitary tees on your main floor plumbing. The tees are recieving drainage and or improper venting from both their tops and bottoms and exiting out their side. Not good... hope they don't clog and need snaking, as the snake will probly just keep popping up at different fixtures instead of traveling down to the main drain. Oh, and stop going barefoot in a construction site

    good luck with your project.
    Last edited by Clayton; 02-06-2005 at 08:48 PM.

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    [QUOTE=Clayton]After the p-trap you can not elbow and run a distance horizontal like you have and elbow up again as you are creating a running trap or inline trap. QUOTE]

    How would this be possible? If the inlet of the ptrap has to receive plumbing from straight above it I dont see anyway that the I could make this work. I could see how it would be possible if I had room to bust out more concrete towards the main drain but that main drain is only a couple of inches away underneath the slab so there is no room. My bathtub upstairs does not drain straight down into the ptrap. After coming out of the tubs drain and overfill connection there is a 90 degree elbow and a short horizontal run before the p trap. Im not saying that this is right as my whole house plumbing seems to be wrong. For example, there IS NO main drain that goes from the slab in the basement up thru the roof for venting. That main drain that you see in the second set of pictures is the only main drain. So the only venting for the fixtures upstairs is after the upstairs fixture, all connecting to one vent that goes to the roof. Now take into consideration that I live in a small town in WV and according to the local Lowe's, there arent any codes........

    Your right about busting out the wooden box, will do that. Also, I understand what you mean about the bends between the wye and the outlet of the p trap. I will dig down deeper so the p trap will elbow out straight to the drain line. And I'll change out that sanitary tee. These fittings are just sitting in place unglued until I know its right. So if you could explain, or maybe draw how I can do this correctly, I would appreciate it.

    P.S - Suprisingly, all the upstairs fixtures work fine, I hardly ever have any clog issues, and I put the toilet to the test all the time!

    Thanks again,

    Todd

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    You are trying to do a lot in a little space. Nothing about it is up to code, the code being the standards that make the tub drain correctly, not a bunch of rules that try to make your life difficult. In the small space you have, it would be difficult to tell you a proper way to pipe it, (after you take all those fittings out of it), since a lot of it would have to be "cut and fit" in place.

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    OK,

    I think I understood all the problems with the first attempt and have reworked everything. Can you guys and gals please look over this and see if this is cool. If I need any changes, could you please suggest them for me? FYI, the double wye is for the vent, lavatory drain, and drain from my furnace (which is almost non existent). The distance from this wye for the vent is about 24" from the ptrap......
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    You cannot use the sanitary tee for the "P" trap connection. The "vent" that runs around the trap should be elevated above the plane of the "P" trap's connection. You cannot use the double "Y" it has to be a "fixture cross", not a sanitary cross, and your condensate should not connect to the drain system or it will "suck" sewer gas from the pipes and blow it all around the house. If you use the fixture, or any, cross, you will have to install a cleanout below it in the vertical pipe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hj
    You cannot use the sanitary tee for the "P" trap connection. The "vent" that runs around the trap should be elevated above the plane of the "P" trap's connection. You cannot use the double "Y" it has to be a "fixture cross", not a sanitary cross, and your condensate should not connect to the drain system or it will "suck" sewer gas from the pipes and blow it all around the house. If you use the fixture, or any, cross, you will have to install a cleanout below it in the vertical pipe.
    Could you please tell me what a "fixture cross" is? and what is the condensate? If you mean the drain for the furnace it has to connect to the dwv system. Where else would it go? It used to drain into a 3" flange in the floor next to this future tub. Could you please explain? When you say that the vent run should be elevated above the plane of the p trap's connection, do you mean I just need to keep the 1/4" per foot rule intact? The drain is elevating from the p trap sanitary tee. I understand that I cannot use the sanitary tee, so I must use a wye with a slightly curved elbow following to duplicate the run that I have now.

    Here is a link to the tubs specifications if it helps.

    http://www.clarionbathware.com/image...lor7404rcs.pdf

    Thanks,
    Todd

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    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    The condensate drain is the discharge from the furnace and it normally connects to a "Tee" in the lavatory drain between the sink and the trap, so there is little possibility of the trap "drying out" unless the sink is not used for a period of time. Without the furnace drain you do not need the two openings so you an use a conventional sanitary tee, not a combo or a "Y". I mean that the "vent" pipe should be "rolled" upward after the trap connection so the drain water will not backup into the vent pipe during normal drainage situations. I know how I might do it, but trying to explain it so it is done correctly can be difficult. But you are using a lot more fittings than it needs. Let me try. Use a combination Y-1/8 bend before the trap and run the vertical pipe upward with a tee for the lavatory. Then out of the end of the combo, connect your trap. You may have to extend the trap beyond the drain location and "bend" it back to get it into position.

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    Thanks for your reply,

    I think I understand your description of how you would do it and I will go downstairs and try it again. I have tried what you are describing before(having the combination tee/wye connected straight to the main drain with no curve, but it went out to far and by the time I connected the p trap to the other end of the tee/wye, I could not make it back to where the drain for the tub needs to come up. I'll try again though and see.

    Also, you mentioned that I wouldn't need a double wye or double sanitary tee for the lavatory, vent, and furnace. I still need to drain the furnace somewhere so where should I drain it. The furnace drain already has a trap installed up near the beginning of the run. The only other place it could drain would be to the main 3" drain pipe going thru the slab. The lavatory is on the opposite side of the bathroom so draining to that between the sink and the trap is not possible.

    Thanks again,

    Todd

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    Howdy,

    I tried this again trying to work in all the suggestions given, unfortunately this is the best I could come up with. HJ, I tried doing what I "think" you meant how you would do it. (coming straight out of the main drain under the slab directly into a combination tee/wye, having the long sweep facing up to use for the vent/lavatory and the other end of the fitting going directly to the p trap.) There was no way to achieve this as the main drain under the slab is too close to where the trap needs to go and coming straight out of it gets in the way of the trap no matter how I do it. My only choice is to use two 90 degree sanitary elbows in an "S" shape connected to the main drain to get it started so there is room to plumb the p trap.

    I know this doesnt look the best but is it still not up to code? Also, if I need to use a double sanitary tee at the top where my lavatory connects to thats fine, although connecft to the double wye would be easier.

    Thanks,
    Todd




  11. #11
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    I would still turn it down if I were the inspector. You said the opening in the vertical pipe was for the lavatory and the other one for the furnace. If so, how can they be on opposite sides of the room? The furnace drain can be piped with 3/4" PVC almost anywhere it has to go. The trap on the furnace is to maintain static pressure, not to keep odors out. If there is no condensation in the unit, such as during dry weather, it will dry out and if the drain is connected to the sewer system the negative pressure in the blower area will suck the sewer gases into the system and blow it into all the rooms. When that happens you will have a hard time locating its source unless you remember this warning. Like I said, a plumber could work out a much better drain system, but it would be by actually trying the fittings to see how they work best.

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    Back again.........Sorry......

    Clayton was kind enough to draw me a picture of what I should do so I went to Lowe's and got the stuff I need. This is the current configuration:



    The drawing I went off of had the combination tee/wye pointing straight up but i could not do this as the long curve would get in the way of the overflow pipe. (once I get everything finalized and glued, i may be able to get it straight cause i dont think the overflow pipe needs to be that far away from the trap drain)

    Here is a pic with the "direct drain" tub kit:



    The only problem is that the kit said it was 1 1/2" but the tubes are smaller. Is this because the kit is thinwall? The whole kit tube can slide into a standard pvc 1 1/2" pipe. What kind of adaptor do I need for this?

    HJ, you indicated that the condensate needs to feed into a p trap, how can I achieve this. If you are facing my tub plumbing straight on, the sink is on the opposite wall as the front of the tub, and about 4 feet to your right. Again, looking straight at the tub plumbing, the furnace is in the wash room that you see on the other side of the studs, and about 6 feet to your right, so theres no way for it to drain to the lavatory. The only way I could run it to the lavatory is to bring it thru the wall that your facing (the tub front wall), past the tub around the back wall of the tub, behind the rear of the tub and straight on to the sink. Total distance would probably be about 20'. Is this what I have to do? Could I put a sanitee on the top of my washing machine drain pipe and connect the condensate to it? That would be alot closer.

    Sorry, but one last problem. I noticed a crack in the 2" connector on the main drain that my tub plumbing connects to. Here is a pic, it is very fuzzy but you can make out the crack where the arrows are pointing. Please, please, please tell me that there is a fix for this and that I dont have to cut out an entire section of concrete slab to access this and replace the whole fitting. The crack is at the top of the connector so I doubt any water would get thru since the system isnt pressurized. Any suggestions? Can I glue and clamp it back together? I know thats not the totally correct way to do it but I really dont have the means to rip out the concrete.



    Thanks so much HJ for your input, and a special thank you to Clayton for your excellent drawing.

    awaiting patiently for an end to my ignorance,

    Todd

  13. #13
    Moderator & Master Plumber hj's Avatar
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    You can run the condensate drain to any location that has a trapped drain. The washing machine riser is good for that. There are many ways to make the actual connection depending on the requirements of your location.

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