Anyone have any advice on getting into the plumbing field?

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TMB9862

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I know all you plumbers on here started somewhere. I'm wondering if anyone has any advice they could share on getting started.

A little background:
I've done plenty of plumbing before working for general contractors but it seems no one is willing to consider hiring someone without experience working for another plumber. I've tried looking through the classified ads, asking at the plumbing supply, and even stopping by a couple of the larger plumbing companies and inquiring.
The only way in I've found so far is to go through the union. I've submitted an application anyway but it's not an easy job to get basically they'll take 18 of 120 applicants and practice affirmative action so half of them are probably women and minorities.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
 

Kordts

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Send Rugged a private message. He needs an intern to be like Darren working for "Kramerica" on Seinfield.
 

Randyj

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When I got into it I had NEVER had a job as a plumber. I had plenty of experience. I was able to verify my experience and have people sign statements of that, got my apprentice card, applied for and took my journeyman's test, then waited a year and took my masters...then went into business doing repair work. I know of a guy who doesn't even have and never has had an apprentice card... makes beaucoups bucks cleaning drains and has a full page yellow pages ad. There are plenty of HVAC's looking for plumbers or helpers... with them you could get your gas card which allows more than just plumbing water and waste pipes. Also, in Alabama there are several trade schools as well as correspondence schools but nothing is better than OJT and reading/learning the codes.
 

TMB9862

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Cal said:
What state/ area are you in ? LOTS of plumbers looking for help !
I'm in NY, on Long Island.

Thanks for the advice guys.
 

Randyj

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Worst case... temp employment agencies. I worked thru one of those for two months for the commercial plumbing experience. Worked out pretty good and the pay was better than regular employment..BUT...when the jobs were caught up I was laid off then no work for weeks at a time. Those who walked in the door with a journeyman's card and verifiable experience were paid $19/hr, my son just had received his journeyman's card with very little experience $16/hr...very good learning experience but not stable employment. They were hiring apprentices at $13/hr. The only other jobs I looked at were starting at $13. If you can make a go of it with the temp agencies then you can quit the job if you can't handle it and go to another. If things work out on the job then you can go to work full time for the employer after he satisfies his agreement with the temp agency. I don't know if they have an office in your area but I was quite satisfied with CLP's program. They offered Aetna health insurance which was cheap with crappy low coverage. If you can't find anything locally then be willing to move to another state just to get the experience and license and to get your foot in the door. It is very hard and sometimes dangerous work but the pay is great and I love it.
 
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Randyj

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hj,

Randyj said:
They were hiring apprentices at $13/hr. The only other jobs I looked at were starting at $13. If you can make a go of it with the temp agencies then you can quit the job if you can't handle it and go to another. If things work out on the job then you can go to work full time for the employer after he satisfies his agreement with the temp agency.

The first job we were sent on..we were interviewed by the temp agency then by the project manager for the company we worked for...that is an employer option. They don't have to take just whatever is thrown at them and they can terminate at will without giving a reason...good deal for the employer and a good way to find work and get experience for the employee.
 

Cass

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You could work for red green for a while and get your duct tape masters. I have followed a few plumbers around that I think went to his school or at least worked for him for a while.

Seriously, I would get the yellow pages and start calling plumbing company's and tell them you want to learn the trade, you will be at work every day, you don't drink (and don't drink), and you will dress neatly, and be courteous to the customers at all times. If you do that I think you stand a good chance of finding work and learning and getting promoted. A larger company would be more likely to higher you.

The other suggestions were good also.

Schooling is also good if you can afford it. Also I would go to night school for your journeyman's once you find a plumbing company to work with.
 
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crossthreaded

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I know that about 6 months ago when I called a plumber to snake my main line he had an apprentice with him.

Best option would be to either try a trade school and get your journeyman first then try and apprentice, or just call around like cass said and find a place willing to train you if your willing to learn.

I know nothing about the plumbing field but I went into a trade school to be a mechanic, graduated and had a job 2 weeks after I got out making 45k a year.
 

TMB9862

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Randyj said:
Worst case... temp employment agencies.
I don't think I have any temp agencies around here. At least there were none that I could located in the phone book.


Cass said:
Seriously, I would get the yellow pages and start calling plumbing company's and tell them you want to learn the trade, you will be at work every day, you don't drink (and don't drink), and you will dress neatly, and be courteous to the customers at all times. If you do that I think you stand a good chance of finding work and learning and getting promoted. A larger company would be more likely to higher you.
That’s the next step. I stopped by another large company today. The secretary told me she wasn’t sure if they were looking for anybody, took my name and number, and had me fill out an application to put with it.

crossthreaded said:
Best option would be to either try a trade school and get your journeyman first then try and apprentice, or just call around like cass said and find a place willing to train you if your willing to learn.
I know a trade school is a good idea. I plan on going to one starting in May. They offer a plumbing certification program (they're certification, nothing official). It entails a 60 hour plumbing course, a 48 hour plumbing course, a 90 hour blueprint reading course, and a 54 hour oil burner course. The trade school is probably a good idea even if I do find a job.
Now if I join the union they have an 8 or 9 hour workday five days a week then send you to school two days a week at night for five years at which point you become a journeyman. I'm not sure if that's a union only school or if anyone can apply.

As far as the journeyman goes does anyone know exactly what is entailed? Do you need the five years of schooling like the union does? Do you need X hours working for a plumber, X hours in a classroom, then you can apply to take a test or you just apply for it and give them proof of experience? Or is it just a test anyone can take? The easiest way to clear that up would probably be to find the number for the building department and ask them right?
 
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Dunbar Plumbing

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I get calls monthly of guys looking for work because I'm in the yellow pages and they "think" they get to ride around in a brand new turbo diesel truck....NOT.


Most if not all times.......it is someone calling on behalf of them or sending me an email saying their grandson or uncle's brother has 27 years doing service plumbing.

I ask if they have a journeyman's license....I either get no reply (by email) or they say no and counter me with the fact they was making $15/hour at the last job.


What I can't understand is that most if not all when they call.....they are always calling from their girlfriends house or that their name never matches what shows up on the caller ID.

And then I get those calls when I'm asked if I'm a union shop. Apparently if I said yes I guess if I decide to hire that IF they are already licensed, I automatically have to pay them top scale......no matter how useless they are and how chopped up their employment record. I've been there and done that and stood next to licensed plumbers like myself that paid their dues and put in their 4/5 years to apprenticeship only to find out that they can operate a shovel but not enough to left alone to handle multiple work tasks.

That's not just for the foremen that make a couple bucks more on the hour, that's for anyone that shows constant intuition to perform without error.

Is it fair for the less productive/knowledgeable to make the same rate as you? I disagree with the equal pay. Been in 3 union shops that there is the workers, the get-byers, and the feel sorry for me's I get along with the boss lemme brownnose because I got a wife and 2 kids but I show up for work everyday can I push a wheelbarrow.

If and when I decide to hire to protect what I've built, my pickings will be hard to find good count plumbers.
 
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TMB9862

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I think I'm missing the point of your post here?
You're like most of the places I've been that want to see X number of years of experience before they will consider hiring someone, not that their is nothing wrong with that. I've never heard of a women giving birth to a master plumber though. Everyone including you got in the door and started learning somewhere. I'm just trying to find my way in.
 
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Dunbar Plumbing

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TMB9862 said:
I think I'm missing the point of your post here?
You're like most of the places I've been that want to see X number of years of experience before you will consider hiring someone, not that their is nothing wrong with that. I've never heard of a women giving birth to a master plumber though. Everyone including you got in the door somewhere. I'm just trying to find one.


You got the gristle of my post. The reason why plumbers want to see X number of years before hiring is because "usually" if they are not a drifter for the dollar they seem to be more stable and a better asessed risk to hire. That's not the rule but it's at least something to consider over a newbie.

Let's say you hire a guy for $10/hour and he/she barely knows how to flush a toilet they are sitting on, and you take them under your wing to teach them through all the repeated ****-ups and customer complaints there's a leak and you KNOW you are spending money instead of making it.

The guy gets a little bit of experience and now he can do it all. Now there is moonlighting because they just learnt a trade that can produce money instantly when you find the people wanting work done.

No one is perfect including me but back in the day I couldn't keep a couple guys busy while I was gone fetching parts. Told a guy to start cleaning all the copper fittings in the milk crates and the dumbass shined the outside of the fittings instead of the inside, even though we was running copper that entire day watching me FFS!

It's rare to find competency on the newbies in the profession. They exist and want to soak it in like a sponge but there's more to it than having your girlfriend or uncle calling to get in the door.

Get into an apprenticeship like I did. That puts it out on the table that you can self-educate yourself without being asked to or do it solely without pay compensation. Do it because you are your only asset and what you make of your time in the profession usually dictates how tough you'll have it through the career.

10% become their own boss; 90% of that 10% usually fold. 7 guys like myself out of 20 in my apprenticeship class went into business soon after we graduated. Of those 7 there are two of us still swinging our own bat.

Those are not very good statistics when you want the freedom to do for yourself in this biz.
 

Master Plumber Mark

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giving birth to master plumbers...

Thats a good one.......

giving birth to a master pplumber....

I am grateful and lucky.... being born into it....

I suppose....???
----------------------------------------------------------------------

anyway a few days ago I get a call from someone that tells me he has about 5 -10 years experinece.....
worked at Roro rooter, ect ect....

I tell him to come in if he wants to fill
out an application but I wont be hiring anyone till summer...


Then the fellow states his AUNT will drive him into to fill out an app some time...

cause he does not have a car or a ride......


I suppose he expected me to give him a van to drive...

that pretty much ended the interview...


 

Kordts

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Call your local plumbing union halls and ask if they are taking applications for the apprenticeship program. That's the way to go in your area, the pay is tops. In my area union journos make 37.50@hour plus bennies, in NYC metro it's well over 40.
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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master plumber mark said:
Thats a good one.......

giving birth to a master pplumber....

I am grateful and lucky.... being born into it....



Did you take over the business of your family? I didn't know that. I know that sometimes when you see that "In business since 1945" I just take a step further (since I'm new) and state "In business since 1833"" :D


Who really is going to be the historian to find out if it's true or not? But hey if it sells jobs, whooooooooo cares!

I'm self created; my dad was a union carpenter/drywall foreman and that's not my bag. I knew early on that I was good with my hands.....and when plumbing entered the view of work I was a sure thing for the trade. I've done all aspects and enjoyed all of it, including drain cleaning.


I get a charge out of opening up a drain as quickly as possible. Dollar signs without materials involved equals solid profit.
 

TMB9862

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kordts said:
Call your local plumbing union halls and ask if they are taking applications for the apprenticeship program. That's the way to go in your area, the pay is tops. In my area union journos make 37.50@hour plus bennies, in NYC metro it's well over 40.
The Union probably is the best way to go. They do five eight hour days and six hours of school a week. I'd imagine you probably learn more there then you would working for most plumbers. The only problem is it isn't easy to get into, like I said 18 of 120 get into the program and I'd imagine a few of those people are going to get picked because they know someone. I'm still going to apply though, next Monday I'm going to stop down there and pick up an application. If they say no I can always take the trade school courses and give it another shot next year.


RUGGED said:
Get into an apprenticeship like I did.
That's exactly what I want to do. I'm just trying to figure out how.


RUGGED said:
the dumbass shined the outside of the fittings instead of the inside
I bet they looked pretty though :)
 
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Cass

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RUGGED said:
Did you take over the business of your family? I didn't know that. I know that sometimes when you see that "In business since 1945" I just take a step further (since I'm new) and state "In business since 1833"" :D


Who really is going to be the historian to find out if it's true or not? But hey if it sells jobs, whooooooooo cares!

What matters is is that it isn't true. If someone from Angies list finds out it won't look good.
 
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Cass

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RUGGED said:
I get a charge out of opening up a drain as quickly as possible. Dollar signs without materials involved equals solid profit.

Without materials?

Don't you own a drain cleaning machine. Material costs are passed on to the customer so that is a wash. The drain cleaning machine is a huge expense, cutter heads aren't cheap and neither are cables. You have more overhead expense doing a drain than repairing a leak in a copper pipe.
 
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