Hiring Practices/Costs Incurred

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Dunbar Plumbing

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To those in the trade of plumbing,


Do you recall what/how much it cost in 1000's to put the first man in the truck?


2 weeks ago I lost 20 calls in the course of 5 days because I couldn't keep up with supply and demand.


I'd have to work the balance where my new hire would at least get 40/week but I still want a hands-on approach to this biz for the time to come......I just have to get away from pulling nearly 300 pounds up 17 steps, along with climbing numerous stairs in some homes I work for.

It's a growing pain I know I can't avoid on this one....it has to happen in the next 12-24 months. I'd rather go at it alone but I have to set myself up to earn a income without the hands moving solely.

I could then concentrate on follow-up, drumming new business and do target advertising more efficiently.


I remember this statement when I was a union service plumber, "What you get paid in a week is what you should be making the boss in a day."

A service union plumber back then would gross around $960 on 40, I recall turn-ins on a good day and almost making into 8 driveways a day around $750-$1000.


$25,000 for a van
$12,000 for materials and tools
$5,000 in drain cleaning equipment
$6000 for workers comp
$2000 increase in accounting fees
$6000 in vehicle insurance/liability increases on the biz
$3000 in unemployment insurance

I need to hire a guy that can hit the ground running, can't afford to bring a guy up through the ranks to learn as you go.....that would not make me money if I'm on the job. Slows you down big time explaining everything.

All of this and I'm pretty sure I'm missing at least another $9000 worth of tallied expenses that would surface along the way....

and no guarantee I DON'T get a call monday morning stating they can't work today because their kids are sick and the wife can't take off work.

Just writing all of this almost talks me out of doing it but I'm sure the beginning has got to be rough.....and smoothes as you go...............?
 

Cass

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Although I don't know you personaly from what I have read of your posts I don't think you will ever find an employee that will do the kind of job that you want done.

I may be all wet on this so please don't take this personally.

Some people want things done their way and can't handle it if it's not and you come off that way to me.
Nothing wrong with that but they are not candidits for employees.

I have known a few like that and they can't keep employees no matter how good they are and if you find someone who is as good as you they will soon leave you to work on their own. Sooooo you will never be happy.

Again maybe I'm all wet on this.
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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You're actually on target on all counts. I already know that I'm a SOB for doing things by the book AND a bad attitude when someone is trying to pass off shoddy workmanship.


That being said,


I offer my customers the best bang for the buck. I didn't build my reputation in this biz to piss it all away because my worker didn't tighten a 3/8" compression nut tight enough on that toilet he/she just rebuilt.

I kinda want to imply the reputation that when I walk into your home, I care about your home. I put on the foot booties, I lay down a towel at the door to wipe off the feet, I have a small shop vac to pick up all dirt/debri, I never use their garbage can to get rid of old materials/boxes and I don't borrow their paper towels or rags.

Use the best products out there, not what my employee is used to. Any threaded connection that isn't in contact with the potable water, better have plumber's grease. Any threaded connection/moving part in contact with the water supply better have FDA approved non-oil based grease. When you clear a drain, you take an extra 10-15 minutes and grab a hose and clean the general area and sprinkle a little clorox or bleach to make the best effort to say you cleaned up after the task.

My method takes considerably longer to do and I understand that conveys to more money for my customer to spend. What I'm selling is more than plumbing services, I'm selling customer satisfaction and I have a feeling that I will fire many employees that are not willing to see what the service is I provide is unusual to common practices around.

Doesn't make me special, just makes me stand out from the others if and when they hire another company walking through the door with who knows what on their shoes, smelling like cigarrettes and wears a coffee cup in their hand like a crutch.

I'd prefer to not be fat like Rosie O'Donnell would like to be normal; neither one of those are going to come true anytime soon.

I will be hard to work with because I can't stand mistakes. They equate to loss of money and lackluster customer satisfaction. I have a great personality towards my customers but if I send my company representative (service tech), he's a reflection of my business and how we treat everyone.

This is why I have customers as far as butler county willing to spend almost $100/hour and wait weeks before I arrive. They know the branding of the product has a guarantee of no-nonsense, nothing to worry about transaction.

Priceless in the minds of many and if Cookie had someone like that with the same sentiments as me, that toilet issue would of been a memory and nothing of a saga would of existed.

Her situation proves that all plumbers are not created equal.....all of us have a personal opinion of what quality workmanship entails.


You're hired!

no

You're fired! < This will be more fun I'm sure :p :D
 

Kordts

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Rugged,
either specialize in something that you can handle by yourself, tankless for instance, haha. Or bite the bullet and hire somebody. Don't raid some other shop, put the word out that you want to hire the best, possibly with an eye to make him a partner.
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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kordts said:
Rugged,
either specialize in something that you can handle by yourself, tankless for instance, haha. Or bite the bullet and hire somebody. Don't raid some other shop, put the word out that you want to hire the best, possibly with an eye to make him a partner.


I know what you mean about raiding other shops. I like the idea of partner if they come to the plate with monetary insurance they are committing to the cause.

I'd really like to be a great support of learning minds in this profession but not at the beginning. If I kept the ball rolling for more than a few guys, I'd possibly hire a couple green hands to teach them the profession.

Trucks get parked back at the shop at night, no exceptions.


I could wear a tankless heater on my back bringing it in. :eek:
 

Cookie

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Kordts,

I was kind of surprised today to learn that there are 6 neighbors on my road with a tankless. I was told by everyone of them, they love it, and they also remarked, they would never go back. I have a very long road and I was trying to count how many houses maybe, I would say as a rough estimate, there may be 70.

*Kordts: correction, 60 houses. I checked in the zoning records. (just thought you would like to know how many on my road (not trying to hijack it)
 
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Kordts

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Cookie,
do you live in a warm weather state? The reason I am asking is because they are just starting to crack the market here. I really feel bad about your plumbing experiences. I have refunded money to unhappy customers, however, they get fired, and stay fired. I spent way too much time making things right on a few calls. But a good name is more precious than gold.
 

Cass

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If you find the right guy you will have to pay him, I would guess for this area, without any benifits, $55-70,000.00 / yr. to keep him. Maybe your part of Ky. is different but a good, knowlageable plumber in Cincy. can make $45,000.00 + benis to start.

I'll come and work for you for $100,000.00 /Yr. as long as I don't have to work weekends, nights, and I get all 12 paid holidays off. :D
 
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Dunbar Plumbing

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Cass said:
If you find the right guy you will have to pay him, I would guess for this area, without any benifits, $55-70,000.00 / yr. to keep him. Maybe your part of Ky. is different but a good, knowlageable plumber in Cincy. can make $45,000.00 + benis to start.

I'll come and work for you for $100,000.00 /Yr. as long as I don't have to work weekends, nights, and I get all 12 paid holidays off. :D



Holy cow Cass :eek: I'm gonna have to sell off my first born on efay just make payroll!


This thread needs an Indiana take on it now, MPM's fly off the handle/sipping whiskey statements make me feel better.


Go for it Mark~! Let her rip and include pictures~!
 

Master Plumber Mark

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Rugged.....your first major headache.....

I would love hire someone myself,
but I wont do it again....

I would never hire another journeyman plumber......
they are all spoiled and think because they have that card
you are supposed to pick them up in a limo every morning.... pay them 25 per hour just to show up


and dont forget BENEFITS, VACATION DAYS... and a truck to drive so they can steal from you....


they simply wont pull their own weight....
and will probably do everyting that they can
to help you to fail...

the list of reasons that they left their last job is endless
and probably all lies anyway..

mental problems, drug issues

dont forget to do monthly drug testing too!!!..




partners never works too well either....
who pulls more weight than the other guy....
and dont forget to mix in the wives too.....

many good shops that were much more successful than me
have crashed and burned because of partners , wives and divorces.
---------------------------------------------------------------------



something I am thinking about doing is getting some
helpers that want to learn the business to save me time that way....

possibly some clean mexican.... ....no one caucasion wants to learn or work anymore.

paying someone 12 or 13 per hour to learn the busienss is safer
than risking everything on a drunk journeyman plumber
weaveing down the road in your plumbing truck at 2.30 am some morning..
BEEN THERE AND DONE THAT---
AND THE COST INCURRED CAN BE DEVASTATEING---




I think that two people can get lots more done in a day than one.....

eventually they will learn plumbing and come to hate my guts......
but that usually takes about 5 + years before they get their plumbers card.....

then they walk out calling me a SOB ect and try to go find
greener pastures......


and the endless cycle begins again.....
 
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hj

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helper

Until you have so much work that you have to put in at least 12 hours a day, you cannot afford to hire someone, and also pay yourself, without either increasing your prices, or expanding your workload.
 

Master Plumber Mark

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Murpheys law....

HJ ..... that is one of the biggest reason to stay small....

if you hire someone to keep up with this "endless never ceaseing workload" ..

then eventually two things always seem to happen......

for one , you are takeing on lots more work to pay for the

dummie or dummies you hired in the first place......
work you probably would not have done if you did not have the extra mouths to feed.....

the second thing that happens is.... Murpheys Law...

Suddenly once you get that new truck, and the spankey new 25+ per hour dumbass showing up late every morning with his cigarettes and benefits in pocket.....

....................THE WORK SLOWS DOWN........................

its absolutely amazeing how that majically seems to happen.


and then you do like I did and prostitute yourself to places like LOWES and other hell holes just to keep your
"ungrateful help " busy....


I fired them all and ended up with two fulley equipped t
rucks to clean out and get rid of...


I have no problems now with help
and I pick and choose my work load.



but this is something that everyone has to experience
once in their lives for themselves
to appreciate and reap the full benefits..
 
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hj

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helpers

I was talking to a guy who owned a digital controls service company. He said that he used to have 30 trucks on the road. Business was booming and his techs were making a bundle of money, but he was going broke. He cut back to 3 trucks, only did what was profitable, and started making money again.
 

TNPlumber

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hiring

Rugged

I myself after four plus years of building my business have taken the plunge and hired another plumber. After a month of working with the guy I feel it has been a great decision. I have made considerably more money in the last month then ever before. Prior to hiring the new plumber I had been turning quite a bit of work down. I had to subcontract all my drain cleaning work just to keep up.

The guy appears to be someone who is good at what is does but doesn't want the headaches of owning his own shop. He doesn't mind to do things my way. We have still have worked nearly three weeks of 8-14 hours a day without a break and the calls keep coming.

I'm thrifty so up front costs weren't too bad. I found an e-250 van with a ladder rack metal bins and shelving at auction for very cheap, under 2k. After a quick white paint job and new lettering and a few hundred in repairs, it will serve well for secondary use. I'll have fewer than 4k in insurance and worker comp a year, over what I was paying. Obviously this just the tip of the ice burg of what I'll actually be paying out but I think 15K plus his salary is a realistic number.

If it doesn't work out for some reason, I'll park the truck loose the new guy and hang myself with a piano wire. Well probably not. Time well Tell. Good luck with your decision.
 

Racer814

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I wish I could work by myself but a optic nerve disease 4 years ago forced me to give up driving....I will say however that it is nice to have help on a lot of jobs and you can absolutely get more done...Personally I try to look for character vs skills when hiring and if he has previous plumbing experience I usually don't hire them...I would rather take a young man and teach him "my way"....theres no way I would pay someone $25/hr because they have a "journeyman" card......journeyman....master plumber...doesnt tell me anything...seen far too many "master" plumbers who couldnt figure the run of an offset without trying to hold a fitting up in space and eyeball it....no, I'd rather take a young kid and train him.:D
 

Dunbar Plumbing

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Here's my recent situation

Yesterday was a normal day of operations. First call netted $410, second was $134 and third which ended up an evening call, $325 < 2 hours to replace a Delta shower valve the customer broke off in the wall. The price I gave him reflects the $500 he spent with me in 04' replacing his water heater and installing a PRV/EXP tank.

I had to goof off just to get 2 hours in last night....it was that simplistic of a switchout....walking distance to my shop.

Here's why I'm considering this move to hire knowing I started this thread before last night @ 10:00pm,


Last trip with my tools out of the customer's bathroom my right knee "unhinged" and it was extremely painful. I was stating how much noise my knees were making going up and down his 18 steps in and out of his house.

One damn shift of the weight and I either hyperextended the knee or it's just getting too loose lately and it's unsafe.


Losing a few days in the operation of my business equates to a loss of income if I get laid up. That is when the pain of turning a repeat customer away is by far more than the physical pain I'm in.

Knee surgery/operation/downtime will run me out of business if no one is running around in a truck with my company name on it.


Plumbing is rough on the body, no one questions that. I'm just the short fuse right now on the bomb that's going to explode sooner or later and I have to be thinking of this possibility.


Some people get down in the dumps when they can't go on 5 hiking trips a year and travel across the world to be your own camera with your eyes.

You wouldn't believe how much I just hope I can get up in the morning and make it through my work day without severe pain or incidents like last night.

And yes, I'm heading out to do an emergency toilet rebuild for a repeat customer. Pain or no pain, I still work.

Didn't write this for sympathy, I guess I should of outlined my reasoning. If I can man this one man operation for years, I'll do it. Survey says with my body, time is running out.


Survey says?!


(loud buzzer gong! [X][X][X])


Thanks for the responses so far
 

Cass

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Now that you told me about your knee my price just went up to $110,000.00 / year
 
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Master Plumber Mark

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cass ----smells blood in the water

that exact thing happenned to me a few years
ago with my ungrateful dumbass employees.....

my father broke his leg.....
and was going to be laid off and not be around indefinitely

I had just signed up for a 5300 yellow page ad per month to pay for (gulp)

So guess expected a
big raise to "help out" while people were healing up???
Guess who goes on a drunk and does not come back into work when I needed them??

I still made money and rode out this storm
no thanks going to the fellows I had carried through thick and thin for the past few years.....


Its best just go find some young kids who want to learn the plumbing trade and let them do the lifting, walking and carrying for youi.










 

Cal

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I fight with myself daily about hiring again or not . I had guys,,,, they started out O.K. , then the usual story we are all telling here happened.

Late / Drunk / Need a loan/ Cursed a customer etc... I let 'em all go , the HELL with 'em.

If I could find one guy who cared about my business HALF as much as I do ,,I would hire him and make him well off. Anybody like that most likely has his own business .

I go to the gym 5 mournings a week ( 5:30a.m) been doing it for 20 years . One of my reasons is to attempt to stay strong for the work well into my 60's.

We'll see if it was a big waste of time . However , ONE GOOD GUY WOULD HELP !!

Had a job offer 5 years ago from a fellow I had apprenticed for way back . He says , " Cal I'll give you $85,000 , benefits ,paid vacation, PROFIT SHAREING etc... I need you to come and run the plumbing section of my business " He had 14 plumbers at the time .

NOW HE HAS 80 !!! Would I have been rich ?? Was I an Idiot ??

Maybe, but I am VERY HAPPY at what I do ! What price do you put on happiness ? I'll bet the world that being happy gets you quite a bit LESS then $ 85,000. There is no realistic amount that could have cured those headaches !!
 
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