My Tankless Experiment

Users who are viewing this thread

Raucina

New Member
Messages
515
Reaction score
1
Points
0
E B A Y
If people want to advertise their products here, they will need to talk to me and pay for that advertising.
I don't offer free advertising. [Terry wrote]
__________________


Over on the well and pump forum we have a guy that has relentlessly advertised his product for at least a year, and another that posts links to his sales site. I can tell you that more than a few people are bothered by it. Are those commercial sales persons exempt from that rule for some reason or do they pay for the privilige? They say that they do not. Are there different rules for each forum?

I know its Terry's football and he can throw it where he wants, but I think we patrons of this media have a right to see the advertising on the side of the page and not in the content disguised as help.
 

Mikey

Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
17
Points
38
Location
Hansville, Washington
I kept the tankless SETS heater. The output of it now goes into a standard electric water heater. I now get a constant temperature out of the faucet. And, by having the tankless in front of it, I doubt anyone at my house will ever have a cold shower.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to use the tankless as a post-heater, rather than a pre-heater? As a pre-heater, the tankless will run whenever the flow demands it, even if the demand is only a few gallons. As a post-heater, it would only run when the tank-type heater's supply of hot water has been exhausted.
 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
The tankless I've looked at (and that's not many) use a flow switch to turn on...they don't necessarily care if it is hot water. If it is, they may modulate, but they still turn on. Then, you could get REALLY hot water, and could have steam pressure problems. I'd restrict it to the input side, if you were going to put them in series. Now, some of the more sophisticated ones are designed for that, but they have interconnected controls which wouldn't be available when connected to some other heater.
 

Mikey

Aspiring Old Fart, EE, computer & networking geek
Messages
3,024
Reaction score
17
Points
38
Location
Hansville, Washington
Good point, Jim. Any idea where I could buy one of those flow sensors? It might be a good way to control the chlorinator in my water system.
 

Winslow

Plumber
Messages
445
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Hawaii
I am tired of hearing all the SMOKE and MIRRORS
talk from the tankless salesman and am presently
looking to install one in my own home

then do a little experiment

-----------------------------------------------------------------------
I Just went to a training seminar last night on the

takagi tankless water heaters.......


that was fun.......
it felt like being at a three stooges film-fest...

(but their was free food)


I was not aware that when you vented one
out the side of the house just like a power vent
that they used a Stainless Steel single wall
vent pipe..... and it died outside just like a
power vent with a metal Tee with screens on
both ends .......

Now the odd thing that the salesman tried to gloss
over was the fact that the actual temperature of
the tee and out going gases can hit about
300 degrees.... folks...you can fry bacon on that!!

they let you take this out the roof of your house
in single wall SS pipe too!!

I think that this temp could set the Attic on fire some day
or the , bushes or leaves on fire
on the side of the house....

I feel you should use double or triple wall flu
pipe if you want to avoid future problems

probably most local codes would force tou to beef up that vent pipe...


Have you ever burnt yourself on a motor cycle muffler
or a lawnmower muffler???

We asked what happened if a kid, wife or dog touched
this hot as hell vent pipe ????


BRANDING someone on this tee is very possible with the
side house outlet at about knee height..........

I was told that is what you got insurance for.....


skin graphs for the dog, wife, and neighbor kids should all be covered
by your insurance company......

no problem

so I was not too impressed....LOL
-----------------------------------------------------------------------


So I think I will install one in my own home
and do an on-going experiment on it.....

Waiting to see if I can get a heavy duty Takagi
from my supplier then slap it on the wall for
RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT

I am looking for a couple of small in line gas meters right now..

then I am gonna hook it up right next to my 75 gallon
BRAD-FORD WHITE...install a bypass on the plumbing system

install the small gas meters to both of the heaters

and do an experiment to see which one works best
and actually is more economical over a certain time period....???


I already have a one inch line with a 3/4 outlet less than
5 feet away...

I have a full 12 inch tile chimmney going out the roof......
the vent is easy as pie and will not factor into the R+D

so it should not be brain surgery to set these up with a bypass

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I presently have a NORTIZ unit new in the box but I dont know how good that brand is...

model #VP-4-36str would anyone know how good this one is???

http://www.noritz.com/n069mdv.html its considered middle of the road.... supposed to supply 6.9 gal per minute
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lets see....here is my criteria

incomming water right now is about 45......

I got two kids and a very -----HIGH MAINTAINCE WIFE-----

we have three bathrooms --one bath-tub rarely gets used,

one is a bath---6ft X36 whirlpool tub- it gets used a lot.

two kitchen sinks , one dishwasher,

one laundry and laundry tub


technically its a 2 1/2 bathoom house......


again the wife is -----HIGH MAINTIANCE------

and she is not going to put up with a lot of sh/t.
so how do you factor the wife into the experiment.?????



here are the safety instructions for the Nortiz unit I presently have

http://www.noritz.com/documents/N-069M_N-063SManual.pdf

All the indoor tankless WH I have installed utilized a double wall pipe with a double wall finish adapter to trim it out.
 

GrumpyPlumber

Licensed Grump
Messages
1,521
Reaction score
57
Points
48
Location
Licensed Grump
All the indoor tankless WH I have installed utilized a double wall pipe with a double wall finish adapter to trim it out.

Many have two options.
Concentric, or seperate vents.
Rinnai has a very affordable concentric kit so it's commonly used, others require SS vents that are pricey, so concentric kits aren't used much due to price.
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
week #15

Meter has jumped up to 12075...

so the cu feet jumped to over 1000 per week..

incomming water temp is now at 51 degrees

but we had a lot of parties and a
very , very large sister in law'
stay with us over X-mas

(she about needs a car wash with a pressure washer to bathe in)




still haggeling over a tankless....
 
Last edited:

Cookie

.
Messages
5,580
Reaction score
8
Points
0
Location
Home
Maybe a new lower maintenance wife with skinnier sister might help? :D
 
Last edited:

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
go for it

you can go ahead and post your informationhere if you so like or start your own thread....

what brand did you buy???

how many people and bathrooms are involves

are you having to adjust yourlifestyle??

how happy are you with it already??


I cant say wether my approach is very accurate but
with the meter in line I should have a handle on usage
to the heater only...

Now if you really want to split hairs... go to e--ba///

and buy a meter like the one I bought and put that in line to the tankless unit only and see what happens....

have fun
 

H20Man

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Alabama
Yeah, you should have bought a Rinnai. 8 gpm.

Also, you're missing the point on the tankless heaters. Yeah, they are more efficient since you don't have to keep a tank hot all the time. But for me, the major benefit is that you NEVER run out of hot water.


Bought a 250btu per hour gas
Now I am being told that a 6.9 gallon Nortiz wont
cut the mustard....


gee...thats just great..... just wonderful ..


.
 

H20Man

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Alabama
The tankless I've looked at (and that's not many) use a flow switch to turn on...they don't necessarily care if it is hot water. If it is, they may modulate, but they still turn on. Then, you could get REALLY hot water, and could have steam pressure problems. I'd restrict it to the input side, if you were going to put them in series. Now, some of the more sophisticated ones are designed for that, but they have interconnected controls which wouldn't be available when connected to some other heater.

This is only true for the el cheapo tankless heaters.

All the good ones adjust their BTU output based on the temp of the incoming water. You can even set the temp of the outgoing water to a specific value.

Putting a tankless before a tank is absolutely useless (unless you have a hot water recirculation system, and then you'd only use a small tank).

What's the point? You're still keeping a tank hot during idle times, so you're not saving any money.
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
jakeru;118011 And by the way said:
So basically a tankless unit will make you end up
staying way too long in the shower

(thats a good an excuse as any, I suppose)

If you are spending too much time in the shower,
it usually means that you are
playing with that bar of soap a little too much...........


blame the tankless heater if you must.......
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
week #19 jan 27 08

hey its really cold out there....

the incomming temp has CRASHED to 43 degrees...

my gas hot water heater meter is now reading 14,750 cu feet....


I really , really would like to see how a Tankless would
do at this temp....

and I am debateing about this right now--should I spend the money
and switch over to a Takagi?

this would be the ultimate test for one in the mid-west...

water at 43 degrees is enough to kill with prolonged exposure to it

and it will make that

tankless really strain to keep up...
 
Last edited:
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks