My Tankless Experiment

Users who are viewing this thread

tilemom

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
NC
Noritz...

HI- I have a gas Noritz tankless installed in our house...it is in the basement by the garage, vented to the outside. Yes, we have continuous hot water --after sometimes up to 4 mins of waiting for it to arrive ( Brrrr) AND when we all of a sudden have a burst of freezing cold water ( again, Brrr). I had it installed because it seemed like the answer to our problem at Christmas when we have 15 people trying to take showers.

What gives? it has been like this since day one. I had the installer guys come back 3 times...

Noritz has been of no help. Even the shower on the same level as the heater and that is only about 15 feet away has problems.
Any thoughts? I wish that i hadn't gotten rid of the perfectly working gas water heater...

HEEELLLLLLPPPPP!!!!

Memmy
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
Pay Pal is trouble I dont want

I should use pay pal again, but its nothing but trouble...


TILEMOM

.


I would like to hear more about that Nortiz unit and what size it is....

I dont want to critize you or rub your troubles in your face...

just want to hear your story ...what size unit you have, ect....

thank you
 

frenchelectrican

Electrician
Messages
46
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
NE Wis / Paris France { In France now }
i will like to heard this story as well i am wondering about that too :eek:


Mark ,, I am not sure but i just cant pinpoint right but i have a feeling there were no restrictor flow gimzo or the water supply is way too cold for this unit to handle and the other possiblty but until Tilemom can get more info on this unit.

i was thinking that the unit is too small or improply calberated for wrong gas fuel like natural gas vs LPG [ both have diffrent port nozzle size and pressure as well ] but right now i just can't say all of it until we hear from her

Merci , Marc
 

tilemom

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
NC
I found the booklet and model no.

Noritz model N-063M/ N-063S

on the face plate of the unit is says that the recovery rate is 193 gallons/hour

any thoughts? Oh, propane gas...and I live in NC...the outside temp makes no difference what so ever to the amount of time it takes for the water to get hot.

The guys came out, shortly after installing the unit, and cleaned the valve filter. No change. No other appliances use the propane. I have gas logs, but they are never used. It doesn't make any difference if I open one tap or two or every tap in the house!

I just looked at the receipt...I have had this crazy unit for 2 and 1/2 years. Yikes~!!!
 

Cass

Plumber
Messages
5,947
Reaction score
7
Points
0
Location
Ohio
Have they checked the water pressure. It is possible that there is so much water going through the unit it can't keep up.

tilemom said:
I found the booklet and model no.

Noritz model N-063M/ N-063S

on the face plate of the unit is says that the recovery rate is 193 gallons/hour

any thoughts? Oh, propane gas...and I live in NC...the outside temp makes no difference what so ever to the amount of time it takes for the water to get hot.

The guys came out, shortly after installing the unit, and cleaned the valve filter. No change. No other appliances use the propane. I have gas logs, but they are never used. It doesn't make any difference if I open one tap or two or every tap in the house!

I just looked at the receipt...I have had this crazy unit for 2 and 1/2 years. Yikes~!!!
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
my gas meter is on the way

I feel I owe it to all the un-suspecting souls out
there to get my butt in gear and at least measure how
much my 75 gallon Brad White heater uses ..

so after about 30 minutes of updateing,,, I got the meter
bought on E- approx cost 89.00

anyone that would pay between 2000 and $ 6500 plus the unit itself to
install an electric or gas tankelss water-heater might find this experiment a
god-send and very helpful....

perhaps I should sell this experiment to be downloaded
like an e-book for the low low price of 3 installments of only 19.95 master card, visa and pay pal accepted...

if they are crazy enough to jump like lemmings and
pay $6500 for junk that they throw away in 2 years,

this information could be
priceless...???


 
Last edited:

frenchelectrican

Electrician
Messages
46
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
NE Wis / Paris France { In France now }
Mark:

I am thinking you are on the right idea to compare tankless vs the tank water heater on normal useage not the lab tested and i feel it will be better have a unbaised test to prove which will performed better for the "X" amout of fuel to heat up the water for "X" amount of water as well.

let us know how you come out on this one

Merci , Marc
 

tilemom

New Member
Messages
12
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
NC
Well- I can say that too much water pressure is NOT the problem...perhaps too little is, though...
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
Any ideas for Criteria for my test.......????

The Meter should be here soon...

Hooking it up should be a snap....

Now what should I test for???

I am thinking about testing the temp first
mine is about 135

I am thinking about testing the temp comming out at all faucets

I am thinking about takeing a stop watch and
seeing how long it takes to get water to all of the furtherst
faucet in the house...

Going to take softness samples of the water...


I am also considering a "bitch factor"
on a scale from .....one through ten.....

One being totally satisfied with life and no problems


and ten being --get the damn thing out of this house or I am going to divorce your sorry ass


can anyone think of anything else I should factor in here???








 

GrumpyPlumber

Licensed Grump
Messages
1,521
Reaction score
57
Points
48
Location
Licensed Grump
Yes, time.
How long it takes for hot water from the tankless opposed to the tank, we know there'll be a longer wait, but how long?
 

Dunbar Plumbing

Master Plumber
Messages
2,920
Reaction score
10
Points
0
Location
Northern Kentucky/Greater Cincinnati Area
Website
www.KoldBreeze.com
Factors

Run this unit for one year, two years, three years without any maintenance and cleaning of the compartment.


That will be the exact same way the majority of property owners treat their plumbing/water heaters.


The put it in and forget it crowd doesn't disappear just because something fast and easy has come their way.


Also, "act" like that unit just broke. Start the process of calling the mfg. and ask them to help you with it. Tell them that you are NOT a plumber and don't have a clue how to fix it. You're actually being honest because this is the exact same situation that the majority of property owners are in: they are not plumbers and they are not familiar with their new wall gadget.

Ryan Seacrest.................out!
 

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
Good Idea Rugged

I have already ran the Brad white 75 gallon
gas heater for two years without doing a thing to it
we keep it at 130-135.....

its pretty robust....it sort of makes
the pours open up like a sauna when it hits ya..

it does not cost a dime to put a garden hose in it and blow out some lime that is no big deal to do.....

I probably should check the anode rod.....
but the general public does not do either .......
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

IN THE MIDWEST I suppose you could factor in at least one de-limeing with a tankless......

Are their any ideas what is that worth to do the pump , vinegar and
how much time is involved???? $150--$200

I probably will run the test on the Brad White for about
3 months....
--------------------------------------------------------------------

also I got to factor in the incomming water temp going into heater thourgh the winter months.....

Perhaps it would be best to install the Tankless first while the water is still fairley warm.....just to give it half a chance...

I will have to somehow keep it fair

I already have the Nortiz 6.9 but I dont know if it will cut the mustard with a 2 1/2 bathroom house



 

Jadnashua

Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Messages
32,771
Reaction score
1,191
Points
113
Location
New England
One of the complaints is how much the water tempurature can change with changes in the volume. Sometimes you only want a trickle of hot - it can become very hot. This may be a significant difference from medium or full-flow temps. This is why they sometimes specify a tempering valve.

Do the installation instructions specify a flow restrictor, or is it built-in?

Also note the time it takes to fill the tub with the restrictor in there. A thermostatically controlled tub/shower valve might be a very helpful addition for both safety and comfort.
 

talkingdog

New Member
Messages
33
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Location
Kyoto Japan
Website
www.flickr.com
JADP, but on the Japanese market, where tankless once ruled, everybody is switching over to heat pumps with 300 liter tanks so that they can take advantage of cheap off-peak electricity. The late night electricity costs about 1/6 of the daytime rate. These units start at about $2000.

People with RFH or otherwise heavy demand for hot water will install one of Honda's gas-powered Micro CHP units, which at current gas rates is competitive with a heat pump and will provide nearly as much heat on demand as a tankless. These are about twice the price of heat pumps. The Micro CHP has a generator built into it that runs off the waste heat that would normally be lost, and the advantage of this is that you get to sell the juice you generate to the power company at peak-rate charges, retail, and this is a big advantage if you are running the RFH flat out during the day.
 

Statjunk

DIY Senior Member
Messages
540
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Mark,

Would you consider buying a second home close buy to make the test more fair?

You might also want to sponsor a family to live in the house. It would be pretty tough to take twice as many showers and wash twice as many dishes.

Just a thought! LOL.

Tom

P.S. I'm interested in the outcome of the test keep it going.
 

Patrick88

Plumber
Messages
832
Reaction score
0
Points
16
Location
Webster Ma.
just installed a Rinnai tankless the other day don't know the spec's but we only charged $2,600 for the install. It was a propane and the home owners had an old power vented propane tank heater. It went very well and I have been told by my bosses we have installed about 7 total.

It is very easy to say this product is no good or another is better because of one reason or another. Every part of the country has many different reasons why one product is better or worse. I have great water at my house (well water) but friends on the other side of town have sucky water. If a tankless water heater is no good because of hard water well how are the other fixtures doing with the hard water. I have seen some great fixtures destroyed from hard water and the home owners will not or can not install proper filters, or softeners. What works in one part of town or country may not work in another. That is why knowing all the facts as a pro is the most important part of being a plumber.

I used to install symmons tub/shower valves when i lived in Essex county Mass. but out in Hampden county they get destroyed from the iron in the water. Does this make symmons valves crap? No it just says i needed to find something that works here.

Now if every plumber in every county in every state did the same test as Master Plumber Mark then we might have a good idea of what works best in your city or town.

Just wanted to give my $.02.

Great thread.
 
Last edited:

Master Plumber Mark

Sensitivity trainer and plumber of mens souls
Messages
5,533
Reaction score
354
Points
83
Location
indianapolis indiana - land of the free, home of
Website
www.weilhammerplumbing.com
Indiana is a good test zone

honestly ,, it really does not matter where you
put one in... the btu cost can be factored in within
a pretty close range....

I am testing for cost and efficinecy differences with my trusty gas meter...

then I am gonna try to figure out how many years it will take before that 2600 invenstmet will pay off.......

I have Delta 1500 pressure balanced valves in the home
and the high maintaince wife.....

and other little factors like ease of operatioin
ect, ect... how long it takes to get hot water
60 feet away....


Of course this state is ground zero for nasty water,
but My CLACK water conditioner should make
the water at alomst 0 hardness....

and dont forget the cold water in the winter time....
about 48 degrees and lower.....


If it can work here without too much in-convienance,
and it acutally saves money and you have an eventual payback.....

then its good about anywhere.....
 
Top
Hey, wait a minute.

This is awkward, but...

It looks like you're using an ad blocker. We get it, but (1) terrylove.com can't live without ads, and (2) ad blockers can cause issues with videos and comments. If you'd like to support the site, please allow ads.

If any particular ad is your REASON for blocking ads, please let us know. We might be able to do something about it. Thanks.
I've Disabled AdBlock    No Thanks