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Thread: My Tankless Experiment

  1. #166
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    No idea...never looked.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  2. #167
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking week #9

    forgot to get around to posting my btu input for
    this week it was 6500 cu ft even.

    temp is now sitting at 59 degrees


    the turkeys are cooking

    this is getting a little dull

    got to get the tankless soon

  3. #168
    Plumber Winslow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by master plumber mark View Post
    I am tired of hearing all the SMOKE and MIRRORS
    talk from the tankless salesman and am presently
    looking to install one in my own home

    then do a little experiment

    -----------------------------------------------------------------------
    I Just went to a training seminar last night on the

    takagi tankless water heaters.......


    that was fun.......
    it felt like being at a three stooges film-fest...

    (but their was free food)


    I was not aware that when you vented one
    out the side of the house just like a power vent
    that they used a Stainless Steel single wall
    vent pipe..... and it died outside just like a
    power vent with a metal Tee with screens on
    both ends .......

    Now the odd thing that the salesman tried to gloss
    over was the fact that the actual temperature of
    the tee and out going gases can hit about
    300 degrees.... folks...you can fry bacon on that!!

    they let you take this out the roof of your house
    in single wall SS pipe too!!

    I think that this temp could set the Attic on fire some day
    or the , bushes or leaves on fire
    on the side of the house....

    I feel you should use double or triple wall flu
    pipe if you want to avoid future problems

    probably most local codes would force tou to beef up that vent pipe...


    Have you ever burnt yourself on a motor cycle muffler
    or a lawnmower muffler???

    We asked what happened if a kid, wife or dog touched
    this hot as hell vent pipe ????


    BRANDING someone on this tee is very possible with the
    side house outlet at about knee height..........

    I was told that is what you got insurance for.....


    skin graphs for the dog, wife, and neighbor kids should all be covered
    by your insurance company......

    no problem

    so I was not too impressed....LOL
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------


    So I think I will install one in my own home
    and do an on-going experiment on it.....

    Waiting to see if I can get a heavy duty Takagi
    from my supplier then slap it on the wall for
    RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT

    I am looking for a couple of small in line gas meters right now..

    then I am gonna hook it up right next to my 75 gallon
    BRAD-FORD WHITE...install a bypass on the plumbing system

    install the small gas meters to both of the heaters

    and do an experiment to see which one works best
    and actually is more economical over a certain time period....???


    I already have a one inch line with a 3/4 outlet less than
    5 feet away...

    I have a full 12 inch tile chimmney going out the roof......
    the vent is easy as pie and will not factor into the R+D

    so it should not be brain surgery to set these up with a bypass

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    I presently have a NORTIZ unit new in the box but I dont know how good that brand is...

    model #VP-4-36str would anyone know how good this one is???

    http://www.noritz.com/n069mdv.html its considered middle of the road.... supposed to supply 6.9 gal per minute
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Lets see....here is my criteria

    incomming water right now is about 45......

    I got two kids and a very -----HIGH MAINTAINCE WIFE-----

    we have three bathrooms --one bath-tub rarely gets used,

    one is a bath---6ft X36 whirlpool tub- it gets used a lot.

    two kitchen sinks , one dishwasher,

    one laundry and laundry tub


    technically its a 2 1/2 bathoom house......


    again the wife is -----HIGH MAINTIANCE------

    and she is not going to put up with a lot of sh/t.
    so how do you factor the wife into the experiment.?????



    here are the safety instructions for the Nortiz unit I presently have

    http://www.noritz.com/documents/N-069M_N-063SManual.pdf
    All the indoor tankless WH I have installed utilized a double wall pipe with a double wall finish adapter to trim it out.

  4. #169
    Licensed Grump GrumpyPlumber's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by winslow View Post
    All the indoor tankless WH I have installed utilized a double wall pipe with a double wall finish adapter to trim it out.

    Many have two options.
    Concentric, or seperate vents.
    Rinnai has a very affordable concentric kit so it's commonly used, others require SS vents that are pricey, so concentric kits aren't used much due to price.
    "The biggest regrets we have in life are the chances we never took."

  5. #170
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking Week #10

    Keep forgetting to post

    the water temp is now about 58 degrees

    the gas meter reads 7400 cu ft

  6. #171
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking Week 11

    Time just flies when you are having fun


    now sitting at 7970 cu feet

    temp is starting to crash somewhat

    down to 55 and falling

    supposed to snow tomorrow night

  7. #172
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking week #13

    meter is at 9260 cu ft..

    Misplaced my thermometer....but
    the water is getting pretty cold


    averaveing about 600 cu feet per week

  8. #173
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking week #15

    Meter has jumped up to 12075...

    so the cu feet jumped to over 1000 per week..

    incomming water temp is now at 51 degrees

    but we had a lot of parties and a
    very , very large sister in law'
    stay with us over X-mas

    (she about needs a car wash with a pressure washer to bathe in)




    still haggeling over a tankless....

  9. #174

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    Maybe a new lower maintenance wife with skinnier sister might help?
    Last edited by Cookie; 12-30-2007 at 09:38 AM.

  10. #175
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking go for it

    you can go ahead and post your informationhere if you so like or start your own thread....

    what brand did you buy???

    how many people and bathrooms are involves

    are you having to adjust yourlifestyle??

    how happy are you with it already??


    I cant say wether my approach is very accurate but
    with the meter in line I should have a handle on usage
    to the heater only...

    Now if you really want to split hairs... go to e--ba///

    and buy a meter like the one I bought and put that in line to the tankless unit only and see what happens....

    have fun

  11. #176
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking week 17 jan13, 08

    meter now reads 13,124....

    used around 550 cu feet per week
    for the past two weeks

    water temp has not changed

  12. #177
    DIY Junior Member H20Man's Avatar
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    Yeah, you should have bought a Rinnai. 8 gpm.

    Also, you're missing the point on the tankless heaters. Yeah, they are more efficient since you don't have to keep a tank hot all the time. But for me, the major benefit is that you NEVER run out of hot water.


    Quote Originally Posted by master plumber mark View Post
    Bought a 250btu per hour gas
    Now I am being told that a 6.9 gallon Nortiz wont
    cut the mustard....


    gee...thats just great..... just wonderful ..


    .

  13. #178
    DIY Junior Member H20Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jadnashua View Post
    The tankless I've looked at (and that's not many) use a flow switch to turn on...they don't necessarily care if it is hot water. If it is, they may modulate, but they still turn on. Then, you could get REALLY hot water, and could have steam pressure problems. I'd restrict it to the input side, if you were going to put them in series. Now, some of the more sophisticated ones are designed for that, but they have interconnected controls which wouldn't be available when connected to some other heater.
    This is only true for the el cheapo tankless heaters.

    All the good ones adjust their BTU output based on the temp of the incoming water. You can even set the temp of the outgoing water to a specific value.

    Putting a tankless before a tank is absolutely useless (unless you have a hot water recirculation system, and then you'd only use a small tank).

    What's the point? You're still keeping a tank hot during idle times, so you're not saving any money.

  14. #179
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking

    [quote=jakeru;118011

    And by the way, I'm actually no longer sure I'll see a gas usage benefit with the tankless, due to longer showers it allows. (It's really great for relaxing achy muscles though!) Regardless, I'll keep you guys posted.[/quote]

    So basically a tankless unit will make you end up
    staying way too long in the shower

    (thats a good an excuse as any, I suppose)

    If you are spending too much time in the shower,
    it usually means that you are
    playing with that bar of soap a little too much...........


    blame the tankless heater if you must.......

  15. #180
    Master Plumber master plumber mark's Avatar
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    Talking week #19 jan 27 08

    hey its really cold out there....

    the incomming temp has CRASHED to 43 degrees...

    my gas hot water heater meter is now reading 14,750 cu feet....


    I really , really would like to see how a Tankless would
    do at this temp....

    and I am debateing about this right now--should I spend the money
    and switch over to a Takagi?

    this would be the ultimate test for one in the mid-west...

    water at 43 degrees is enough to kill with prolonged exposure to it

    and it will make that

    tankless really strain to keep up...

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