American Standard Cadet 3 Three Toilet consumer product review

[Lancejackson]

I replaced my splashing Cadet 3 yesterday with a new toto drake (elongated 2 piece). Believe it or not, it also splashes. I just do not understand what is causing this to happen. I am either the unluckiest guy in the world or I notice what others do not.

[Ian Gills]

Lance. Mine does not splash. I notice these things. Believe me. I have obsessive compulsive disorder.

Is is splashing back from flushing or just when you pee in it?

[achutch]

Lance,

You must be having a run of bad luck. My Cadet 3, which I've described above doesn't splash. I also have a Drake which came out of the box flawless just as the pros here like Terry and Redwood said it would. My Drake in the 2.5 years it's been in place has never splashed. To compare the two, I took a hand mirror and looked at the rim holes underneath. The Drake's rim is lined with perfect circles. The flush is straight down with a nice satisfied gulp! Nothing comes back, not even a splash!

What kind of a splash are you getting from your Drake, and where is it hitting?

On another note, I have moved back to the Mountain for the season, and my two ancient (1950's) Eljer toilets (one a 5 gallon siphon jet with a additional jet assisted swirl, and the other, pictured above, a 7 gallon gusher with forward trap married to a "Standard" tank) are seeing to my needs.

My Drake and my Cadet 3 win hands down in performance!!!!!

I often have to flush twice with the 5 gallon siphon jet because it chews and spits back paper, and less often with the "washdown" bowl (which swishes almost violently). BUT, water here is free and the Eljer bowls are the tallest I've ever had for a round front bowl. So, I guess I'll keep them (at least for now.....)!

achutch

[fips]

Hi All,

First I want to thank Terry for this forum and everyone for posting. I found this site invaluable in selecting and installing a unit to replace a 40 year old toilet in my home this past week.

I had been reviewing manufacturers & models for a while and based on the recent wave of posts on the Cadet 3 I decided to give it a try. I bought the all-in-one kit, round bowl. Based on recent posts, here are my findings regarding the most common issues I saw posted.

1) Glazing quality/finish :
I did not open the box prior to leaving the store, but scrutinized over the unit when I got it home. Honestly my first reaction was one of concern. The unit was packed well, but when I pulled out the bowl, I found three areas of glazing that looked dark, rough, and messy, as if they had glazed over a dirty unit. Then I realized that these were all at the points one might hold the unit while lifting it. I'm not sure what the workers had on their hands but these marks required some soapy water and some good rubbing to get off. The glazing was actually fine in these areas. It was just dirty hand prints that had baked on during storage and transport. I did find areas on the bottom of the bowl unit (the undermost surface facing the floor and not normally exposed to water), where it appeared that glazing might have been missed and the material had been spot sealed with some type of rubberized sealant.

Marks/malformations:The only mark was a small dimple on the front edge of the tank lid that is visible if you crouch down to eye level with the lid, but not when you look down from the height of a normal adult while entering the bathroom.

2) Tank to Bowl, and lid to tank fit:
I had read that some people were very concerned about the tank feeling loose after tightening. The plastic bag that held the tank nut wrench (yes, this kit includes everything necessary to install) stated that the tank should be tightened until the tank met and contacted the front and back of the bowl. I carefully aligned the rubber gasket and even squeezed it into the place, and then began tightening. When I started tightening, the gap was at least 3/8 inch. I went back and forth and I'll admit I got worried, as it took a little bit of effort to tighten each nut. I actually bent over and rested some of my weight on the top of the tank (chest resting on open tank) to compress the rubber ring, and these seemed to help a bit. So, I took about 10 minutes just to do this, but just as they stated, I was able to bring both the front and back into contact and once I did not feel any motion when I tried to gently rock the tank back and forth, I stopped tightening. The tank feels very firm on the toilet and there is no gap along the junction where the tank and bowl meet.
Also I found that the tank lid fit very well, and was very stable, on the tank.

3) Toilet flush effectiveness and splash:
As others have noted, the toilet has a quick efficient flush, that is relatively quiet (very subjective area). I did notice a bit of a "gulp" at the beginning of the flush where it seemed a little air was escaping, and wondered whether my bathroom DWV had been vented properly. Since the previous old toilet did not exhibit this, I think it is just a result of the rapid flush.
Although I did not notice any large scale splashing that might result in the seat getting wet, I did sit down and flush as a test, and found that I remained dry.

4) Comfort:
I bought the regular round bowl unit. The height of the bowl is 15 inches, one inch taller than the unit I replaced. So even though I didn't get the taller unit, this toilet is taller and more comfortable than the unit it replaced.

5) Overall Conclusion: Overall, my experience was good, and although I found that the finish of the unit did not match that of the 1967 unit I replaced, it is completely adequate (the expected visible areas are all finished well) and the unit is attractive, solid feeling and works well.

I would also consider replacing my other toilet with this. One thing to note is that if you have an older home where they didn't paint behind the tank, the new smaller tanks will force you to break out a paint brush, but that is to be expected with any newer, smaller toilet.

Although the Cadet 3 unit has worked out fine, I do think American Standard should improve quality of the unit, and get them packed without dirty hand prints on them, because I wouldn't be surprised if possibly some of the others' comments about flaws in the finish were these baked on dirty hand prints. Also since the packaging of my unit was fine I believe these marks were made at the packing facility, not due to a return. I would happily spend a little more to have overall better finish and a clean unit.

[nashkato]

For anyone needing a 10" rough-in, the Cadet 3 is a good choice. I'm happy with the flush performance and you can't best the 1000 on the MaP tests. Mine does not splash. It was a little tricky to find what I needed. I wanted round front and regular height since this would be used by my young children. I went with 2384.010 (3011 bowl, 4019 tank). To get this I had to buy a white bowl from Lowes (HD had only elongated or bone for RF) and the tank from HD. Neither store had both! Total cost was only about $130. Note that HD is selling the tank as for a 12" "compact elongated" but it works in several applications. (Thank goodness for the AS website to know the exact model numbers.) I put a Champion round "EverClean" seat on it (5285) because I wanted to stick with AS and it was the only choice in stores. Seems OK not special.

I needed a 10" rough-in unit and this was about the only thing I could get without special ordering and/or spending a bundle. For instance, I had a new Kohler Wellworth in my last house (which was fair not great). Since they make a 10" Wellworth I thought I might try that--too much money and special order for mediocre performance. I prefer to buy at my indy plumbing supply house vs HD/Lowes but they don't stock AS. I had already purchased a Toto Drake from them before measuring the rough (doh!) so that will go in another bathroom now (the others do have 12" rough!). Also, I had to add 1" of flange spacers and do some mortar repair around the flange due to the hack job by the original builders, so I was nervous about using the Toto adapters to make something else fit the 10" space.

Derek

[jgilliam1955]

For whatever reason this tank could not be tightened as designed. I was able to tighten it so tight that the tank was on the bowl on only one side. I did tighten it incrementally but with no success. I must have tried tightening it a dozen times before I finally said ok that's enough. I returned it to Lowes.

I know the Cadet 3 are recommended by people on the board but I think that American Standard lacks a quality control department.

The other Cadet 3 that I returned to Lowes yesterday lacked glazing on part of the tank that was very visable with the tank cover in place. It also lacked a seat which was to be included. They did give me a seat but like I say I ended up returning it anyway because of the lack of glaze.

The same person handled my return yesterday handled the one today. I asked her if they get a lot of returns on American Standard and she said yes.
Ron in SC

I installed mine a few months ago & it works great. BUT just like your, it did not have a seat & had to go out & get one. So the quality control must be hit & miss.

[Ian Gills]

My cadet 3 is almost two years old now. I recently went on vacation for two weeks and came home yesterday.

When I turned the water back on, I could hear a drip coming from inside my Cadet 3. On closer inspection it appeared to be a very slight leak from the flapper which had developed a blister on the rubber.

So, it was off to the DIY store today to buy a Korky flapper. They make one especially to fit the Cadet 3.

I fitted the new one, and with some chain adjustment, the thing works smoother than ever.

[achutch]

The blistered flapper seems to be an issue, doesn't it? My Cadet 3 has been in since March, and my water has chloramine in it (a big controversy within my regional water district over use of chloramine vs chlorine). It might be worth replacing the original flapper now with the Korky before trouble starts (or at least have one on hand).

Thanks for the heads up, Ian.

achutch

[kibosh]

Hi all,

I would first like to thank everyone for this forum I have found it very informative!

I do have a question of my own . . . I just installed a Cadet 3 in my house on Saturday and I find that the flapper seems to close very quickly. Almost too quickly. The toilet just doesn't seem to "sound" right. Is this normal for this toilet? The performance does seem to be there it is just that the flushing action seems to end abruptly (the flapper only takes about a second, if that, to close and appears to be weighted). I adjusted the water level almost to the top of the overflow vent and adjusted the chain so that it is taught. I am used to a flapper that has a "floater" on it to help it stay open for a while.

Perhaps this is just how this toilet is but it does seem odd to me.

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks,

Kibosh

[Ian Gills]

Your chain might be too taught or too slack. Slacken it off a little or try tightening it. Cadet 3s are very sensitive to the right chain adjustment.

Too far one way or the other has caused me problems.

[jadnashua]

The low flow toilets do NOT sound like the old ones...the flush is quite fast and they do NOT empty the tank. So, as long as it flushes the wastes, it's probably the new normal...you'll get used to is quickly. Because they only use a small amount of water, refill is much quicker, too.

[kibosh]

OK . . . thanks for the responses. I actually replaced a low flow (6L American Standard Marina) which was completely useless but it didn't sound like this one. The sound is like a whoosh with an abrupt gurgle almost like how an old toilet would sound if you didn't press the lever all the way down.

Man that old toilet was bad!

[kibosh]

Another thought on this . . . I failed to mention that my tank is insulated. This obviously does not allow as much water in the tank as a non-insulated version. Perhaps this is an issue? If it is, can the insulation be removed (I know it can be removed but will it cause any damage to the tank)?

[jadnashua]

Modern toilets do not empty the tank upon flushing, so it probably wouldn't make any difference. Now, to get the required flush volume, the closing of the flush valve (normally a flapper) must be calibrated to the specific toilet. Yours may not be working properly in that regard.

[groundHog]

The Cadet 3 does splash water onto the bottom of the seat, or if you are sitting, then yes, the bottom. A lot of Cadet 3 fans don't mind the wet butt. Either that, or they have never flushed while sitting down.

Our Cadet3 has never splashed any water. Anywhere. And I flush sitting down.

I changed out my flapper valve last night. The rubber ring gasket which seals the flapper valve had approximately (6) blisters on the sealing side. These blisters were the cause of my slow leakage and re-filling of the tank.

All blisters were arranged in a circle which corresponds precisely with the sealing surface on the flush valve. It almost looks as if there is a material incompatibility issue between the rubber gasket and the flush valve seat!

I tried to flip the gasket upside-down to use the back side too. Unfortunately, there is a raised lip on the inner diameter of the gasket that allows it to only fit one way into the flapper valve frame.

Our Cadet3 has been in service for a year or so now, and the only problems I've had was the flapper gasket got blisters (but I did flip the gasket over and re-install), and a piece of lime got caught in the fill valve and caused the valve to stick. These two problems, which I consider normal wear, just surfaced in the last month.

The real news, for me, was that the fill valve assembly in the Cadet3 is serviceable, not a throwaway. I was able to take the valve apart, get the offending piece of lime out, re-install, and it works fine again. And the flapper is not a throwaway either, the gasket can be replaced.

Remarks from plumbers notwithstanding, this DIY homeowner continues to be impressed with the Cadet3 toilet. It's a flushing wonder.

- djb