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Thread: American Standard Cadet 3 Three Toilet consumer product review

  1. #241
    DIY Junior Member wood1919's Avatar
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    Question American Standard 1.6 gpf elongated

    I am looking for some help on a problem with two American Standard toilets that I had installed at my home about two years ago and that, for two reasons, I feel pose a health hazard.

    Before describing what happens, I would note that I did call American Standard directly shortly after the toilets were installed and was given a suggested solution to the one of the problem which was to untwist a wire coat hanger, bend the end up and poke the holes under the rim of the toilet where water comes out on flushing to make sure they were clogged.

    Although this made no sense at all as without somehow taking a picture of these holes, it would be impossible to tell if they were clogged ( I assumed the tech I spoke to meant during manufacturing since the toilets were new and the problem started immediately) and because amount of water dispensed during flushing seemed similar to any other toilet and finally because the main problem I was calling about was that almost every time I use either of these toilets for a bowel movement, they clog and have to plunged before they can be used again. This obviously I an embarrassing problem but not one that I have ever experienced with any other toilets including the ones that these replaced.

    I am convinced that this and a second problem, that when these toilets are flushed a small amount water is frequently likely to actually splash out of the toilet up into the air and either onto the floor, the bath mat or onto me or my clothing.

    Both of these problems are so disgusting and frustrating to me that because of them, if I possibly can, I will stall what should be normal bodily functions until I can get to my office or some other location where there is a toilet without these problems. Alternatively, if I do use one of these toilets before leaving the my house and I have to plunge it before leaving (which takes more time and effort than I have ever experienced with any other toilet in the past) I can wind up being rushed or even late for scheduled events.

    I know AS is being sued for leakage problems on their Champion toilets, has anyone reading this experienced or heard of a problem similar to this one. I suspect because it is a little more embarrassing, it is not one readily discussed but based on what I have described, I feel these toilets pose serious potential health hazards and would like any information anyone reading this can provide of similar experiences and their resolution.

    Thanks for any replies to this post.
    Last edited by wood1919; 09-27-2009 at 09:28 AM.

  2. #242
    DIY Junior Member kindajazzy's Avatar
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    Default American Standard Cadet

    I am in the process of buying a new toilet & am so glad to have found this site, as I've already learned so much!

    It looks like the AS Cadet that everyone is raving about will be my choice. But I do have a couple of quesitons.

    Lowes lists Cadet, Cadet 3 & Cadet 3 FloWise models, though they really only show the latter two models - what is the difference? To get the 1.28 GPF as apposed to the 1.6, I have to pay about $250 more. I just can't afford that. Is the difference, in that aspect, that vital?

    Also, what is the difference between the Cadet 3 flushing system & the Cadet 3 FloWise flushing system?

    And what is a 'lined tank'?

    Oh - and what is the price range that you are all speaking of when referring to the toilet you purchased?

    I'm sorry to ask so many questions, but this is the first time I've had to do this & I hate to depend totally on the sales associate, as I know from experience that very few are as well informed as the Lowes commericals state. Yet I want to make an informed choice, so as not to end up with regrets and/or constant problems/adjustments/repairs.

    Thanks again for any advice.


    American Standard Flowise
    Last edited by Terry; 10-08-2009 at 08:24 AM.

  3. #243

    Default

    What planet are you on?

    The reviews on the Cadet range from it's a piece of crap to I'm so glad that something so cheaply made still functions.
    If you feel lucky, buy one and take it home, pull it from the box and see if it's even installable.
    If you want a worry free expierence, this isn't it.
    It's just a nunther case, of you get waht you pay for.

  4. #244
    DIY Junior Member kindajazzy's Avatar
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    Default Cadet 3

    The reviews I'm referring to are right from this site, this discussion forum. I won't say any more, in response, which risks stooping to your level, & digifying your attitude. The others here have been very well spoken, even in their critiquing, for which I'm grateful.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mad Plumber View Post
    What planet are you on?

    The reviews on the Cadet range from it's a piece of crap to I'm so glad that something so cheaply made still functions.
    If you feel lucky, buy one and take it home, pull it from the box and see if it's even installable.
    If you want a worry free expierence, this isn't it.
    It's just a nunther case, of you get waht you pay for.

  5. #245
    Geotechnical Engineer Fistor's Avatar
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    Default Tank sits too high on spud gasket - ???

    Hi All -

    Just putting in a new toilet - an American Standard Cadet 3 (based on reviews I have read here and general availability where I live). I got a 2-piece version - the round bowl (3011) and a tank (4007). They are both "Cadet 3" line, sold next to each other on the shelf, and according to the AS website, they are the ones that go together.

    Here is my "issue" (if it is actually one...):

    When placing the tank onto the bowl, and using the spud washer/gasket included with the tank, the tank seems to site really high up above the bowl. I assume that the tank rests on the spud to some degree, stabilized by the bolts to either side, but how much of a gap between the bottom of the tank and the top of the bowl should there be??

    I have attached an image... the gap is about 5/8-in. There is no way that tightening the bolts will reduce this in any appreciable way... the gasket fits nicely over the plastic piece at the base of the tank (i.e. seems to be the right fit), but the depression in the top of the bowl for the gasket is minimal....

    These are my questions:

    How high should this tank sit?
    Is it ok to leave it this high?
    Or, should I look for some sort of replacement gasket at the hardware store that has reduced clearance?
    Do I want the base of the tank to actually contact the top of the bowl?

    Any help much appreciated... according to model numbers, website, etc., I have the correct match of parts... but this just still seems too high (although I am an amateur, so I want to hear what all of you have to say...)

    Thanks!!!

    Carl
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  6. #246
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer jadnashua's Avatar
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    Default

    What does the instruction manual say? My guess is that what you have is a leak waiting to happen. is it possible that you have the tapered end facing the wrong way? On most tanks, you tighten until you get contact (or close to it) between the tank and the bowl. Someone said if you soak the gasket in hot water before starting, it makes it easier. If you tighten the bolts a little, and evenly on each side while pushing down, you should be able to get it tighter.

    Could be another QA/QC issue with the thing.
    Jim DeBruycker
    Important note - I'm not a pro
    Retired Defense Industry Engineer; Schluter 2.5-day Workshop Completed 2013, 2014

  7. #247
    Geotechnical Engineer Fistor's Avatar
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    Default

    Well, you hit on the weird thing -- there is no tapered end!!

    One end is "open", and sets into the plastic ring on the bottom of the tank. The other side is flat, supposedly to seat in the bowl portion.

    I agree with you - something doesn't seem right - my understanding (and you seemed to confirm it) is that the gasket should be tapered. Even the instructions in with the tank show a tapered one in the instructions. This one, supplied by the manufacturer, inside the box, is not. I tried every which way to get it to fit.

    Anyway, I just got back from Home Depot, and picked up one of every type of gasket they have... I'll test fit until I find the right one... I just hope that there wasn't some special reason why a flat one was included with the tank.

    Let me know if you have any other suggestions/thoughts

    ** UPDATE **
    Thanks for relocating this thread - I did a search before posting, but the answer I was seeking was hidden on p.7/14 in this post, which is why I didn't see it the first time. Thanks to whoever moved this.

    Based on the similar questions/answers, I will try again with the included gasket, and give it more force (gulp) - sounds like it can be done. it's just really difficult...
    Last edited by Fistor; 10-05-2009 at 12:12 PM.

  8. #248
    Geotechnical Engineer Fistor's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jakeru View Post
    Keep tightening the tank to bowl nuts until *both* the front and the rear of the tank contacts the bowl. This will stabilize the tank "rock solid", and will cut that 1/2" gap you are showing on the sides down a lot. (I've got 1/8"-1/4" gap on the sides of mine; see picture.)

    Read a few posts earlier in this "mega-thread" for some tips, including lubricating the one-piece nut/washers for less friction, and using a better tool than the factory nut driver for more torque.

    I managed to use the rectangular profile tank to bowl gasket in my cadet 3 installation successfully. No problems there for me.
    OK, I have attached my tank... it is almost in contact - maybe 1/16 in gap... but I am a little afraid to tighten any more... it got to the point that I had difficulty in my arms tightening any more (using the factory nut driver)...

    The tank is pretty solid, but not "rock" solid as you describe... do you think it is worth "risking" any further tightening? Of course, I would like it to be rock solid... but how much force can the base of the tank take until it cracks?

    Thoughts anyone??

  9. #249
    DIY Senior Member Runs with bison's Avatar
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    If it breaks during tightening because it can't make contact that is a good thing! It gets rid of a defective toilet/tank before you get saddled with it permanently. Seriously, if it can't be assembled properly then it should be returned to the store so that you can try to find one that is properly made.

    After this sort of experience I would be inclined to take it back to the store for an exchange. Then I would open the one I was getting in the store and check the tank gasket fit. If it didn't appear that it could be properly assembled I would keep opening boxes until I found one that could. Look at it this way, by doing so you've just potentially saved yourself and some other homeowners a lot of grief.

    Big box stores tend to have a lot of stuff on the shelves that is defective (take a look at the threads on ALL of the Danco shower arms sometime.) I take A LOT of stuff back. I'll do easy fixes when I have the tools to make it work properly, but otherwise it goes back. I recently had a Kidde fire extinguisher that started losing charge after a few months--when I returned it I found about half of those in the store stock had the same issue! It was subject to manufacturer recall about 6 months later.

    If the big box stores and Wal Mart are any indication we are in the age of shoddy. The way to close the age out is to return defective merchandise. Once it costs the manufacturer enough money, their quality control will improve, or they will go out of business. I would prefer the former, but either way the consumer and market is better off.

  10. #250
    Geotechnical Engineer Fistor's Avatar
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    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Runs with bison View Post
    If it breaks during tightening because it can't make contact that is a good thing! It gets rid of a defective toilet/tank before you get saddled with it permanently.
    Good point... my only fear is placing the thing under stress, and it breaks sometime when I'm not home - anyone have that experience? Or, if it is going to break, will it break only when tightening? (mmm... maybe I'm just being paranoid...)

  11. #251
    Geotechnical Engineer Fistor's Avatar
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    great to know... I'll give it a try... after all, what have I got to lose? The tank was only $88... not too bad, and it'll give me some piece of mind.

    Thanks for the tip, I'll let you know how it works out!!

    Carl

  12. #252
    DIY Senior Member Runs with bison's Avatar
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    Why not use a small (1/4" drive) ratchet with the deepsocket? That's what I do on things that require more torque than I can apply to a screwdriver handle.

  13. #253
    DIY Junior Member WannaKnow's Avatar
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    Default Is Flowise Cadet 3 a good toilet?

    Regular Cadet 3 seems to have 15 inch rim height. Flowise Cadet 3 looks like it has 16.5 inch rim height, which is more comfortable for an older person. Are Flowise Cadet 3 models as highly rated as non-Flowise? Do they clog more? I need a 16.5 inch height...

  14. #254

    Default My tank broke during the install!

    Quote Originally Posted by Runs with bison View Post
    If it breaks during tightening because it can't make contact that is a good thing! It gets rid of a defective toilet/tank before you get saddled with it permanently. Seriously, if it can't be assembled properly then it should be returned to the store so that you can try to find one that is properly made.

    After this sort of experience I would be inclined to take it back to the store for an exchange. ....
    Well, I installed 2 Cadet 3's yesterday. The first broke. I was tightening the tank to the bowl and it was not even close to touching. Probably still about .5" away from the tank. I knew that it was going to be to tight if I went much further but I kept going. I wanted to make it at least close to the bowl. Well, the tank broke around one of the bolts. I went back to the big box store and got another and it installed fine. The main difference between the toilets from what I could tell was that one of the gaskets seem softer then the other.

    Going to return the other. I think its time to go with Toto for my other toilets.

    Incidently, i am replacing my builder grade Gerber toilets that have caused problems within our entire developement. They have defects galore...

    Paul

  15. #255
    Master Plumber Dunbar Plumbing's Avatar
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    Default

    Installed a Cadet 3 today. I never try to crank down the tanks till they bottom out to the sanitary bar. I tighten down enough for a firm connection and no leaks, nothing more. I've been telling customers how to get those flappers without costing them money.


    Seems I've replaced a lot of toilets lately.
    Read what the end of this sentence means.

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