I was seriously considering installing a couple of American Standard compact Elongated Cadet 3 toilets in my house which will be a very pleasant upgrade from a couple of terrible peerless toilets, but now I'm hesitant after reading quite a few of the posts in this forum and speaking to a plumber the other day. A local plumber said he was not a big fan of the American Standard Cadet and preferred the Kohler Cimaron. My 3rd toilet in the house, which I'm not replacing, is a Kohler that was in place when I bought the house 8 years ago and it has been great compared the the sorry Peerless toilets. I was leaning toward the compact EL Cadet 3 due to space and budget contraints as well as Home Depot's in store ratings on performance.
From what I read on this thread, it seems as though the Toto brand is the toilet preferred by many plumbers as well as homeowners. What really puzzles me is that if that is the case then why would it be that my local home improvement centers don't appear to carry the Toto brand? (Lowes & Home Depot in Atlanta). I did some research and I can order the Toto Drakes from a local supply house at a reasonable price. I would probably end up spending and extra $100 per toilet.
I'm a DIY type of guy, and although this is my first time replacing toilets, I have already pulled the old toilets to be replaced, because I just had new bath floors installed, and will likely install the new toilets myself so if I have to make minor repairs to the toilets down the road it's not a big deal as I've done this over the years for all the toilets in the house.
Should I spend the extra money for the Toto Drakes or just go with the A.S. Cadet 3 compacts? They both seem to be about the same length which is a very important consideration in my small bathrooms. Also, are the Totos easier to install in tight spaces?
Last edited by Reader Review; 08-13-2009 at 07:58 AM. Reason: misspell
I have one user that creates really hard, very large diameter (like 2 inches) waste and relatively long as well on a regular basis that would clog my previous toilet (1986 vintage) 2 out of 3 times.
Another user fills the bowl on occasion with a large amount of waste (but not so hard) as well.
Add to that the typical variety of things that have to flushed.
While this is not a scientific sampling, I'd say it gives a good variety of test flushes to the Cadet 3 Flowise, which has yet to clog for me over it's 2 month usage so far.
Assuming a good toilet unit (and I understand why a plumber goes with a Toto if it eliminates callbacks), for an individual DIY-er, I believe the Cadet 3 Flowise is a good, cost-effective choice. (Less than $275 from Lowe's)
Last edited by miracj; 08-13-2009 at 06:36 AM.
Of course, I don't really know what I'm talking about, since I've been learning about toilets for less than a week now. But based on my research. . .
That's a fair statement.I believe that Toto makes toilets that cost as much as or less than $275 (the Dalton, perhaps?) that would be of higher quality than the Cadet 3.
I sell the Dalton round front with high bowl for $185
I had one installed in the home for a while.
It worked well.
I don't recall spending nearly $300 on my Cadet 3. Perhaps half of that?
But then again, it has been so reliable for so many years that perhaps prices were cheaper way back then.
Oh, I remember the "good ol' days" when gas was nearly 4 bucks a gallon. Sigh.
Last edited by Ian Gills; 08-14-2009 at 12:46 PM.
Are we comparing apples and oranges?
I sell the Bone Toto Dalton comfort height for $202
The Bone Toto Drake RF for $279
Not really.Are we comparing apples and oranges?
Toto and American Standard are not in the same class.
If you look at the toilets we are throwing away, and returning for problems, that pile would be American Standard.
The fact that you found one that wasn't defective doesn't mean much.
You were lucky.
Maybe you should buy a lottery ticket today.
From a user's point of view I have sat on my fair share of Toto commercial and residential toilets and have not found their performance or quality to be that far ahead of my Cadet 3, if at all.
The Lufthansa business class lounge at Dulles Airport has Toto toilets. They're nice but not so far ahead of my Cadet 3 to make me think about changing my toilet.
My most recent hotel on vacation to the Keys had a Toto Guinevere. Again, no big deal.
I really do not see what all the fuss is about.
The Cadet 3 is a well-priced, good toilet that flushes (almost) as well as any Toto I have sat on. And mine came neatly out of the box as well. So it looks like at least two of us have been struck by lighting, eh? And I know there are more that have not had any problems and are pleased.
The one thing that does stand out is Toto brassware however. I like their flush valves in commercial operation, but I do not see them that often.
But with porcelain products I'll take my chances thank you.
Last edited by Ian Gills; 08-14-2009 at 08:12 PM.
Orange you glad you bought a Toto toilet?Are we comparing apples and oranges?
I better apples for the warranty on the defective American Standard parts again.
The Drake bone, elongated delivered to me (Boston, MA) is about $285 on the internet. I could not find a local dealer that could match anything even close to that (plus I'd pay a 5% tax)
However, an operational unit is important. A DIY-er needs to be able to return a problem item locally for replacement, otherwise he'd have to pay return shipping (not cheap or easy for toilets). A professional has other options. So it was not practical to return a Drake if a problem did occur.
And it always interesting in forums that you hear way more complaints than praises, so the results are skewed by the # of users of something. I suspect American Standard probably sells a whole lot more units than Toto (at least in the USA) and looking at forum comments is not statistically useful to indicate quality. Nevertheless, I always check forums, comments and reviews before a big or important purchase, looking for the negatives to see what problems or issues one might potentially run into. The trick is to weigh those comments as
1. being valid,
2. being typical vs rare, and
3. being important and relevant to your purchase
And struck by lightning? If someone wants to stand on a golf course with a metal iron club in your hand during a thunderstorm, go ahead I prefer to make my own luck by researching my purchases!
Personal experience is what I go by, not reading posts from Ian every few posts.
Cadet with Korky replacement fill valve and Korky replacement flapper.
The same parts a Toto would use.
Also, replacement trip lever.
Cadet with replacement Toto Softclose seat.
I realize that Ian's Cadet had the trip lever replaced, the flapper, the fill valve and he put on a Toto Softclose seat.
This is your second valid example?
So when Ian says it's like sitting on a Toto, it's the Toto seat that he put on his A/S
I sell a few thousand toilets a year, and many plumbers also notice the quality problems with American Standard.
It's not made up.
When I meet other plumbers at the whole sale supply house, I they feel the same way.
Too many times they have been bitten by the defect bug, and had to spend time replacing bad bowls and tanks.
Really, I think purchasing a few thousand products a year trumps the two purchases from you two guys.
Especially since Ian has replaced every part on his already.
What part of that do you not get?
There are a lot of happy HD buyers that don't mind chipped porcelain.
But when a plumber sells you shit like that, the homeowner gets a lot pickier.
A second point is that your state requires you to pay sales tax on all purchases, even those shipped in.
By not reporting the sales tax to your local state, it doesn't make you smart.
It makes you a criminal.
Have you ever seen the lumber sold at big box.
I wouldn't use it to make a dog house.
I'm sure you thing that stuff is good too.
Homeowner grade is what they call it.
Big box also carries their own line of faucets with more metal taken out and replace with plastic.
The plumbers know that, that's why we won't buy the junk they sell.
They kind of look the same, but they are made cheaper.
Look at the Moen web site, they have two number systems,
One for dummies that are too dumb to notice.
And one for people that want it right the first time.
I always make sure if I know what I'm really buying and weigh the applicability to the use, final cost and reliability. Of course, not everyone does their homework either.
The Toto line is clearly a quality toilet, and anyone who did not consider them wouldn't be very smart. But the final costs, at least in my part of the country, were not in my budget.
The black rubber on the Cadet 3 Flapper starts to blister, this one is six months old.
Last edited by Terry; 08-21-2009 at 06:02 AM.
Look, I am just posting in a review section about a toilet I own having spent a few bucks on parts that I did for the love of it.
Plumbers spend an hour-a-time installing these.
I have spent three years sitting on one.
You judge for yourself whether my opinion counts?
Last edited by Ian Gills; 08-16-2009 at 05:34 AM.