American Standard Cadet 3 Three Toilet consumer product review

Cadet 3

The reviews I'm referring to are right from this site, this discussion forum. I won't say any more, in response, which risks stooping to your level, & digifying your attitude. The others here have been very well spoken, even in their critiquing, for which I'm grateful.

Mad Plumber said:

What planet are you on?

The reviews on the Cadet range from it's a piece of crap to I'm so glad that something so cheaply made still functions.
If you feel lucky, buy one and take it home, pull it from the box and see if it's even installable.
If you want a worry free expierence, this isn't it.
It's just a nunther case, of you get waht you pay for.

Click to expand...

Tank sits too high on spud gasket - ???

Hi All -

Just putting in a new toilet - an American Standard Cadet 3 (based on reviews I have read here and general availability where I live). I got a 2-piece version - the round bowl (3011) and a tank (4007). They are both "Cadet 3" line, sold next to each other on the shelf, and according to the AS website, they are the ones that go together.

Here is my "issue" (if it is actually one...):

When placing the tank onto the bowl, and using the spud washer/gasket included with the tank, the tank seems to site really high up above the bowl. I assume that the tank rests on the spud to some degree, stabilized by the bolts to either side, but how much of a gap between the bottom of the tank and the top of the bowl should there be??

I have attached an image... the gap is about 5/8-in. There is no way that tightening the bolts will reduce this in any appreciable way... the gasket fits nicely over the plastic piece at the base of the tank (i.e. seems to be the right fit), but the depression in the top of the bowl for the gasket is minimal....

These are my questions:

How high should this tank sit?
Is it ok to leave it this high?
Or, should I look for some sort of replacement gasket at the hardware store that has reduced clearance?
Do I want the base of the tank to actually contact the top of the bowl?

Any help much appreciated... according to model numbers, website, etc., I have the correct match of parts... but this just still seems too high (although I am an amateur, so I want to hear what all of you have to say...)

Thanks!!!

Carl

What does the instruction manual say? My guess is that what you have is a leak waiting to happen. is it possible that you have the tapered end facing the wrong way? On most tanks, you tighten until you get contact (or close to it) between the tank and the bowl. Someone said if you soak the gasket in hot water before starting, it makes it easier. If you tighten the bolts a little, and evenly on each side while pushing down, you should be able to get it tighter.

Could be another QA/QC issue with the thing.

Well, you hit on the weird thing -- there is no tapered end!!

One end is "open", and sets into the plastic ring on the bottom of the tank. The other side is flat, supposedly to seat in the bowl portion.

I agree with you - something doesn't seem right - my understanding (and you seemed to confirm it) is that the gasket should be tapered. Even the instructions in with the tank show a tapered one in the instructions. This one, supplied by the manufacturer, inside the box, is not. I tried every which way to get it to fit.

Anyway, I just got back from Home Depot, and picked up one of every type of gasket they have... I'll test fit until I find the right one... I just hope that there wasn't some special reason why a flat one was included with the tank.

Let me know if you have any other suggestions/thoughts

** UPDATE **
Thanks for relocating this thread - I did a search before posting, but the answer I was seeking was hidden on p.7/14 in this post, which is why I didn't see it the first time. Thanks to whoever moved this.

Based on the similar questions/answers, I will try again with the included gasket, and give it more force (gulp) - sounds like it can be done. it's just really difficult...

jakeru said:

Keep tightening the tank to bowl nuts until *both* the front and the rear of the tank contacts the bowl. This will stabilize the tank "rock solid", and will cut that 1/2" gap you are showing on the sides down a lot. (I've got 1/8"-1/4" gap on the sides of mine; see picture.)

Read a few posts earlier in this "mega-thread" for some tips, including lubricating the one-piece nut/washers for less friction, and using a better tool than the factory nut driver for more torque.

I managed to use the rectangular profile tank to bowl gasket in my cadet 3 installation successfully. No problems there for me.

Click to expand...

OK, I have attached my tank... it is almost in contact - maybe 1/16 in gap... but I am a little afraid to tighten any more... it got to the point that I had difficulty in my arms tightening any more (using the factory nut driver)...

The tank is pretty solid, but not "rock" solid as you describe... do you think it is worth "risking" any further tightening? Of course, I would like it to be rock solid... but how much force can the base of the tank take until it cracks?

Thoughts anyone??

If it breaks during tightening because it can't make contact that is a good thing! It gets rid of a defective toilet/tank before you get saddled with it permanently. Seriously, if it can't be assembled properly then it should be returned to the store so that you can try to find one that is properly made.

After this sort of experience I would be inclined to take it back to the store for an exchange. Then I would open the one I was getting in the store and check the tank gasket fit. If it didn't appear that it could be properly assembled I would keep opening boxes until I found one that could. Look at it this way, by doing so you've just potentially saved yourself and some other homeowners a lot of grief.

Big box stores tend to have a lot of stuff on the shelves that is defective (take a look at the threads on ALL of the Danco shower arms sometime.) I take A LOT of stuff back. I'll do easy fixes when I have the tools to make it work properly, but otherwise it goes back. I recently had a Kidde fire extinguisher that started losing charge after a few months--when I returned it I found about half of those in the store stock had the same issue! It was subject to manufacturer recall about 6 months later.

If the big box stores and Wal Mart are any indication we are in the age of shoddy. The way to close the age out is to return defective merchandise. Once it costs the manufacturer enough money, their quality control will improve, or they will go out of business. I would prefer the former, but either way the consumer and market is better off.

Runs with bison said:

If it breaks during tightening because it can't make contact that is a good thing! It gets rid of a defective toilet/tank before you get saddled with it permanently.

Click to expand...

Good point... my only fear is placing the thing under stress, and it breaks sometime when I'm not home - anyone have that experience? Or, if it is going to break, will it break only when tightening? (mmm... maybe I'm just being paranoid...)

great to know... I'll give it a try... after all, what have I got to lose? The tank was only $88... not too bad, and it'll give me some piece of mind.

Thanks for the tip, I'll let you know how it works out!!

Carl

Why not use a small (1/4" drive) ratchet with the deepsocket? That's what I do on things that require more torque than I can apply to a screwdriver handle.

Is Flowise Cadet 3 a good toilet?

Regular Cadet 3 seems to have 15 inch rim height. Flowise Cadet 3 looks like it has 16.5 inch rim height, which is more comfortable for an older person. Are Flowise Cadet 3 models as highly rated as non-Flowise? Do they clog more? I need a 16.5 inch height...

My tank broke during the install!

Runs with bison said:

If it breaks during tightening because it can't make contact that is a good thing! It gets rid of a defective toilet/tank before you get saddled with it permanently. Seriously, if it can't be assembled properly then it should be returned to the store so that you can try to find one that is properly made.

After this sort of experience I would be inclined to take it back to the store for an exchange. ....

Click to expand...

Well, I installed 2 Cadet 3's yesterday. The first broke. I was tightening the tank to the bowl and it was not even close to touching. Probably still about .5" away from the tank. I knew that it was going to be to tight if I went much further but I kept going. I wanted to make it at least close to the bowl. Well, the tank broke around one of the bolts. I went back to the big box store and got another and it installed fine. The main difference between the toilets from what I could tell was that one of the gaskets seem softer then the other.

Going to return the other. I think its time to go with Toto for my other toilets.

Incidently, i am replacing my builder grade Gerber toilets that have caused problems within our entire developement. They have defects galore...

Paul

Installed a Cadet 3 today. I never try to crank down the tanks till they bottom out to the sanitary bar. I tighten down enough for a firm connection and no leaks, nothing more. I've been telling customers how to get those flappers without costing them money.


Seems I've replaced a lot of toilets lately.

I also just replaced my 2 toilets with Cadet 3's. I had someone who was a plumber years ago install them for me. One thing I noticed is that the top of the tanks were loose...you could rock them a bit back and forth. I stumbled upon this thread and have picked up a few tips...


I got out my deep socket 13mm ratchet and started to tightened a bit as they were sort of loose I had the level on there and tightened them down pretty good Used a level and horizontal wise it is dead on that way but front to back it is tilting forward ever so slightly so says the level...is this ok?

Oh let me add one other thing and have no idea if this means anything....I tightened down as I mentioned above so that there is just a tiny little bit of space between the tank and the bowl in front and looks almost the same on the back.....so it looks very similar to the picture about 5 replies up...although as I said it slopes forward a bit(with the level I see no way I could raise the front of it to match the back, it seems too much)

Anyways being the curious one on who things work I wanted to see how this gasket seals and did not know that the inner seal is under the flapper...So I took a peek and I see that the black ring on the "inside" of the drain is not uniform all the way around..it is squished in in some spots and uniform in others..I take it that is from me tightening the tank down


Now is this ok as it compresses down as you make it tight or am I just being really weird noticing this. I just don't want to have a floor full of water one day.....but I figure if people are tightening them down to where the bowl just about makes contact with the tank they should have a similar result?


Just trying to learn from you guys who know this stuff in and out

Thank you

I have been following this thread as we are in the market for a new toilet. I guess I am way behind when it comes to the world of toilets. I have lived in homes where the toilet was 20 years old and other than replacing the float system with a Fluidmaster the toilet worked well. I also have a pubic toilet at my business that is used by truck drivers. It is about 15 years old and is a cheap made in Columbia toilet. Works fine. Now you need to be an engineer to get a good toilet. We winter in Mexico and need a new toilet to replace a Mansfield that I hate. I ws considering the Cadet as we have a Cadet 1.6 that is 15 years old in our simmer cottage. Works great. I think I paid about $160 which was a little pricey 15 years ago. After reading this thread I think I will pass on the Cadet. We are 300 miles from an American home depot and I do not want to puchase something that likely will be faulty. The plumbing supply stores in Mexico and Home Depot Mexico sell a lot of those new dual flush toilets. They scare me. Too many things to go wrong and parts not readily available. We do not have a water meter so saving water is not really important. I do see some American Standard toilets but have not checked to see where they were built. A lot of the expensive toilets here are manufactured in other Latin American countries. Our water is quite good right now but once the town well gets a little older the quality will deteriorate and become very salty. Hard on toilets. Question : Is there a 1.6 toilet that will flush well and use standard components?

Thanks

Moisheh

I just installed a Cadet 3 1.28 gpf: 3378.128.020. Listed as a flo-wise in the MAP report but not on the box. It has a normal flapper not the raised flapper Champion-type I was expecting from Am. Std. literature.

It flushes OK, surprising considering the very low head available. The flapper action isn't entirely consistent, leading to some variations in flush and bowl fill. Maybe I need to fiddle with the chain as others have mentioned?

Better, I think to buy the bowl and tank separately. Big box is hard to manage. Cheesy steel hold-down bolts I didn't use. Wax ring with plastic nozzle in it and I don't use those. Seat is no more than usable.

Overall: OK, or a bit more than OK for the price, but not a Toto.

am

Alan Muller said:

I just installed a Cadet 3 1.28 gpf: 3378.128.020. Listed as a flo-wise in the MAP report but not on the box. It has a normal flapper not the raised flapper Champion-type I was expecting from Am. Std. literature.

It flushes OK, surprising considering the very low head available. The flapper action isn't entirely consistent, leading to some variations in flush and bowl fill. Maybe I need to fiddle with the chain as others have mentioned?

Better, I think to buy the bowl and tank separately. Big box is hard to manage. Cheesy steel hold-down bolts I didn't use. Wax ring with plastic nozzle in it and I don't use those. Seat is no more than usable.

Overall: OK, or a bit more than OK for the price, but not a Toto.

am

Click to expand...

Thanks for the info.

I agree about the seat and have generally replaced the cheesy plastic seat they come with, although I have usually bought the tank and bowl separately so I haven't had to deal with the seat. However, I have installed at least one with the cheesy plastic seat (CPC) and I'd have to say that if you don't mind a CPC they hold up pretty well. The various wooden seats that I've installed in my apartment building over the years haven't held up all that well. My current standard is a $20 wood one with nickel hardware that I buy from Lowes and I don't think those last as well as the CPC's. and do I get even one more dollar of rent money on my apartments because I haven't been installing CPC's? I doubt it. Maybe the CPC's aren't so bad.

As to the throw away the wax ring because it has the plastic nozzle:
I think I've heard this before on this forum. I have always bought the ones with the plastic nozzles. Maybe I shouldn't? What's the issue?

davefoc said:

Thanks for the info.

As to the throw away the wax ring because it has the plastic nozzle:
I think I've heard this before on this forum. I have always bought the ones with the plastic nozzles. Maybe I shouldn't? What's the issue?

Click to expand...

I used to use them too, then thought about it and wondered "why put in a nozzle smaller than either the bowl outlet or the line it feeds into? What can be the benefit of creating that obstruction?" (Just measured the ring that came with the Cadet: nozzle outlet is about 2-9/19". Measured a Harvey's at about 2-5/8".)

I'm not a plumber and don't set toilets that often. I try to measure each job and usually there is about 1/4" for wax, and the horn of the bowl sticks down into the flange. So the wax is only a gas seal unless the line is plugged and backing up.

I can see there might be a use for the plastic nozzle in case of a depressed flange or bowl with a broken horn or.....

If the ring is not centered properly in the flange, the whole funnel can collapse and block things off. Also, if the flange height isn't where it should be, that little extra thickness of the plastic can allow a leak path if it gets warped.

Cadet 3 flapper comes off

Folks -

I have a Cadet 3 10" rough-in toilet. Got it during a remodeling project bad dream (thus no desire for warranty work) a couple of years ago. Eventually it got installed into a spot that could have taken a 12" rough-in, but....

Anyway - from day 1, it runs because that flap ears pop the tube every time it's flushed. We've adjusted the chain to every possible position. Got American Standard to send me a new one. I've read the reviews on here - seemingly very positive - but as far as I am concerned this thing is poorly designed. I am not a plumber, but I am pretty handy - but this thing has me stumped and my wife has explained - correctly - that she has had enough.

Sugggestions? I do not WANT to spend the money on a new toilet, but if that's what it takes - so be it.

Thanks to all in advance!

Steve