I seem to be having a problem with bowl wash on my new compact cadet 3. I'm not sure if I'm going to return it or try to solve this .I thought I'd try the korky and the fluidmaster adjustable flapper to see if they closed slower neither seemed to make much of a difference .Does any one else have this problem ?
I don't know much about plumbing but I know a little about business. Given that this business is now owned by these private equity guys (Sun and Bain), you can bet it's being managed for cash flow, not for quality. If quality costs more in the short term, it will be sacrificed.
Management is now working for their investors, who have a 3 to 7-year time horizon. Goal is to sell the business for a big profit within that time. They will take any action they need to squeeze more profit and cash flow out of the business.
Private equity has its legitimate place in the business world - they are great at cleaning up lax, inefficient companies, however, from a consumer's perspective, there's a big difference between a company that's owned by buy-and-flip shops, and a company that is thinking about what their reputation will be 20, 30, 50 years from now.
Anyway, I will be shopping for, buying, and installing a Toto in the near future. Will post results on this forum.
The Cadet is 1.6 gals and I have the water level to within 1/16 of the top of the overflow tube and the flapper chain is adjusted properly with hardly any slack .
Last edited by davesyo; 03-16-2009 at 07:22 PM.
I called American Standard and they said since it's 1.6 gals it will not work the same as my 3.5 gal .Does this mean that all 1.6 gal toilets may do this to a point ? Because if so then I would either put the 3.5 back in or just keep the cadet .
3.5 Gallons and 1.6 gallons.
That is a big difference.
They haven't made 3.5's since 1992.
And many cities will be rationing water during Summers.
In other countries, they use less water in the bowl.
The old 3.5 bowls kept more water in the bowl.
However, those that switch to using less, have been noticing less expensive water and sewer bills every month.
I have not read anything posted recently (during 2008) on the current reliability reviews of the new Cadet 3 flowise toilets. Now that it is a WaterSense toilet does it maintain a powerful flush?
I just really want to know if there are new reports of leaking or quality issues like its ancesters had.
You, my friend are lucky. I've also been confronted with Kohler Cimmarons that were all jacked up!
There is no incentive for us to knock these brands around because what would be the reasoning behind that¿ Just calling 'em like we see 'em.
You see the difference between me and you is I do it for a living. Callbacks or redoing a job cost me money. I figure a callback on a toilet is probably going to cost me in the neighborhood of 3 hours time on a job that I originally charged 1 hour. 2 of those a week and it's about like taking a day off without pay.
What would I be doing if I wasn't playing with a calback dealing with defective product?
I'd be working making money.
I like to keep my callback rate low... Like 1% or less.
Installing a toilet and discovering it's leaking and needs replacement or having a flapper blister before the 1 year guarantee is up is not a way to make money...
Sometimes customers have a problem with it too...
Just not good for business!
Redwood is right, you might as well pick up the Korky flapper to replace the Cadet flapper when it starts to blister.
We installed a Kohler Cimarron in Seattle, water leaked from the outside of the bowl onto the floor.You, my friend are lucky. I've also been confronted with Kohler Cimmarons that were all jacked up!
Suck the water out, pull the bowl, drive 35 minutes each way, wait at the counter 30 minutes for a new bowl, drive back 35 minutes, install the new bowl and hope like heck that one doesn't leak.
We run a business, we really don't have time to run around all day playing nurse maid for companies that don't inspect their product before it leaves the factory.
If they are willing to pay us for our time, then fine.
But that's never going to happen.
So TomW, how much time are you willing to donate?
Is it two hours of every day?
One hour a day?
How much time do you expect plumbers to donate?
One thing I did not realize until a couple days after I installed the cadet is that there is a water flow restrictor in the fluidmaster outlet that you can pull out if you want more water in the bowl and the tank fills up a few seconds sooner , but the bowl will only fill so much as the rest will just go out the drain .I could not figure out at first why the restrictor was in there because usually when you buy a fluidmaster it does not have a flow restrictor.
From a service plumbers perspective on these toilets, I am starting to see American Standard taking on a new life in sales of the Cadet 3 and the Champion 4. I have installed 5 Champion 4 toilets in just the past 20 days.
Amazing since the Champion 3 was riddled with tower problems, but I think the champion 4 retrofit flush valve along with the champion 4 toilet is somewhat a huge presence in the owners hands.
For the most part, the property owner has the product there for me to install, and that is not my choice what they buy. It's consistent that AS is leading on purchases, otherwise I wouldn't be installing so many lately.
When you see a champion 4 flush, and see how little drops out of the tank, I can't figure out how they did it, and make that much turbulence to pull solids out of that toilet. ??????
I've got about 18 Champion 4's installed since they came out, Too many Cadet 3's to count. I also work on a lot of those AS Plebe's as well and I feel those are low-grade end. You might as well toss the smart valve because it's useless. Still flushes decent.
If I was to put my finger on "why" AS is having such a presence in getting their product out there would be the fact that it's big box store charm.
Step into a plumbing supply house or plumbing showroom specifically for plumbing, and you have vultures that are hurting for sales at this point. They don't display 22 toilets of all shapes and sizes across one run, they show the "high" end, colored toilets with coordinating shower or tub setup...to display a bathroom set. You want just the plain white, you're going to have to sit down with the lady/man with a book and see a simple picture.
I'm saying this from all the years I pointed my customers to these places, and now it's a why bother attitude when HD and Lowe's have something very comparable.
But I'm shocked to see how well the AS 4 is doing when AS 3 was horrible for problems. How fast we forget.
Friday I replaced 3 peerless toilets with 3 AS 4's, rebuilt a AS Plebe saturday, today I installed an AS4 and reset a sterling tonight.
That's 5 AS products in just a simple 5 days. Amazing.
Important note - I'm not a pro
Retired Defense Industry Engineer
I think for the most part it comes down to price. When someone asks me what is the best toilet to get I say "Toto." Then they cringe and ask how much and I tell them, "Said and done, cost is around three hundred." (Quoting a Drake) Inevitable question is "What about the toilets at the H*** D**** (big orange box)¿ They have some for hundred bucks. All in ones." I tell them do their research.
A lot of people think it's just an apparatus to drop and run. Not realizing that their frugalness may lead them here seeking help for what they thought was a great deal.
Last edited by Terry; 04-07-2009 at 09:02 PM.