New guy here with a few questions

speedbump said:

I especially liked the part about the small bladder tanks taking out his pumps in a year or so.

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Or, he replaced his submersible pumps with a more reliable brand... even with a small tank, they should have lasted longer than a year, short cycling may have contributed to an early death, but I'll believe that when I see a study done (the engineer in me). Perhaps he had dirty power, or sand in his water, or the wrong size pump for the depth.

Rancher

Sizing a zone to run higher than the cut off pressure is impossible. However, if you size your zone for the flow rate that causes the pump to be at a higher pressure than the cut off, the CSV will keep the pressure below the cut off and the pump will continue to run. Just means not maxing out the flow from the pump for the zone, which is exactly what a CSV is designed to do. So he is correct that the CSV will allow him to do this. Now you have constant pressure on all the zones and some flow from the pump left in reserve in case you need water in the house while the sprinklers are running. Maybe I just have not been explaining it correctly so far.

Rancher said:

Or, he replaced his submersible pumps with a more reliable brand... even with a small tank, they should have lasted longer than a year, short cycling may have contributed to an early death, but I'll believe that when I see a study done (the engineer in me). Perhaps he had dirty power, or sand in his water, or the wrong size pump for the depth.

Rancher

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The pumps were shallow well jet pumps with 2'' wells about 60' deep, exposed to the elements here in Florida and yes that inof itself contributed to their demise. The pump would cycle with 1 toilet flush. Larger bladder tank and I got 8-10 flushes.

Still I believe the CSV has a very valid purpose within a system that either requires its use or a system is designed around its value to make the system better.
For me it all goes back to the end users needs/expectations. Most home owners cannot afford to enlist the services from a licensed mechanical engineer to size & design a water piping system for their homes or irrigation for that matter. This leaves it up to the plumbing subcontractor to install it to "code" as they say.
This guy never does any calculations of pipe size for selected fixtures/recovery times/pressure fluxuations/peak demand gpm etc.... and the list can go on even if its a water source from a local utility. So the home owner installs a multi head shower system and complains about the water pressure because the "plumber" isn't paid to provide that level of service, if he's even qualified, to calculate the required pipe size from the point of entry to the point of service.
I can't do it but I knew enough to size my supply large enough to each fixture and install a pump capable of pushing enough water thru those pipes with a comfortable margin of error. But even that was based on my experince in the field and relative to practices used in my area. The science of good water pressure starts way beyond most of the discussions we have here. You guys hear a lot of questions and most of your replys can be attributed solving problem created by poor design in the first place.
I find this entire forum most interesting to say the least. I wish I was better educated to participate at the next level.
Jeff

"most of your replies can be attributed solving problem created by poor design in the first place."

With all the varied uses for water in a normal home, it is impossible to design a pump system to match all the different uses. Therefore, you are doing the right thing by installing a pump large enough to easily handle the largest demands. It is also impossible to put in a big enough pressure tank to eliminate cycling, pressure fluctuations, and water hammer. The larger the tank the longer the cycles but, it still cycles. I could make a lot more money selling high dollar, short lived pumps and systems. Selling Cycle Stop Valves is a hard way to make a living. The average person does not understand it and thinks it is snake oil until they have tried one. People with a lot of experience in the pump business think the CSV is too simple and therefore cannot work. Manufactures and suppliers who DO understand how the CSV works, know that it makes things last longer and will cut into their repeat business so, they want nothing to do with it. I persevere because I believe it is the right thing to do. Doing the right thing will not make me the most money but, my conscience allows me to sleep very well at night. The CSV is a fun thing to sell because it solves peoples problems and they tell me so everyday.