joe in queens
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If you're piping a water system from scratch, and whole house instant-on hot water is in your plans - with a Grundfos pump and all at the source - how do you handle the issue of shut-off valves at each fixture since the system is one giant loop?
The code compliant way would seem to be a T, with the line going from the T to the fixture having the shut-off installed in between - and accessible of course. However, if this line runs far from the HW loop - which will likely be the case in some spots - it kind of defeats the purpose; you'll end up waiting for the HW to run through the line.
The most effective and efficient way would seem to be a giant HW loop, with the loop running as close to the fixture as possible. However, in this scenario the loops would end-up behind the wall - say a shower valve, kitchen sink, and what not - with no access to a shut off, so you'd end up with a supply line and return line that are accessible in a basement or crawl space. So in this case the only alternative would be to install the shut-off, but this would kill everything downstream of the shut-off. Might as well not even install HW shut-offs, and just close the shut-off at the HW source.
I've gotten conflicting answers from my friends in the plumbing trade. Some say I must go with the first scenario - code is code, and can't be sacrificed in favor of comfort and efficiency. Others say concealed plumbing isn't subject to shut-off requirements, shuts offs at fixture units like undercabinet sinks are sufficient, but what about things like washing machines and dishwashing equipment, not to mention outside hot-water frost-free hose bibs? My friend who'll be filing the job (job is in NYC) where I'll be doing the work under, says just make sure there's a shut-off there for the inspector to see, doesn't matter if it's after T or kills the whole loop as long as the water can be shut-off. And still other say for HW only a shut off at the HW heater or boiler is necessary and not to waste my money, individual "hard" shut-offs are not needed.
Obviously, I don't want the embarassement of being red-tagged with a friends license, not to mention having to rip expensive copper out... so I am all ears and eyes!
Thanks so much in advance folks!
The code compliant way would seem to be a T, with the line going from the T to the fixture having the shut-off installed in between - and accessible of course. However, if this line runs far from the HW loop - which will likely be the case in some spots - it kind of defeats the purpose; you'll end up waiting for the HW to run through the line.
The most effective and efficient way would seem to be a giant HW loop, with the loop running as close to the fixture as possible. However, in this scenario the loops would end-up behind the wall - say a shower valve, kitchen sink, and what not - with no access to a shut off, so you'd end up with a supply line and return line that are accessible in a basement or crawl space. So in this case the only alternative would be to install the shut-off, but this would kill everything downstream of the shut-off. Might as well not even install HW shut-offs, and just close the shut-off at the HW source.
I've gotten conflicting answers from my friends in the plumbing trade. Some say I must go with the first scenario - code is code, and can't be sacrificed in favor of comfort and efficiency. Others say concealed plumbing isn't subject to shut-off requirements, shuts offs at fixture units like undercabinet sinks are sufficient, but what about things like washing machines and dishwashing equipment, not to mention outside hot-water frost-free hose bibs? My friend who'll be filing the job (job is in NYC) where I'll be doing the work under, says just make sure there's a shut-off there for the inspector to see, doesn't matter if it's after T or kills the whole loop as long as the water can be shut-off. And still other say for HW only a shut off at the HW heater or boiler is necessary and not to waste my money, individual "hard" shut-offs are not needed.
Obviously, I don't want the embarassement of being red-tagged with a friends license, not to mention having to rip expensive copper out... so I am all ears and eyes!
Thanks so much in advance folks!