PVC Glue Technique Question

Molo · Jan 4, 2007

Hello All,

I have a question regarding the tolerances of PVC primer/glue joints.
Last night I was doing some drain work, putting PVC pipe and fittings together. I had put a fitting together and held it tight for about 45 seconds. When I went to connect to it with my next piece I torqued it enough to move the fitting. I then pushed the fitting back into place and held it again for another 45 seconds or so. Today the fitting is very tight (no play) and i have been runngin water through it and it doesn't leak. Is this acceptable?

TIA,
Molo

Bob NH · Jan 4, 2007

Technique for cementing PVC pipe joints:

1. Cut the pipe square and chamfer the inside and outside.
2. Apply cleaner to both the male and female parts.
3. Apply cement to both the male and femal parts. No holidays (missed spots)
4. Insert the male part into the female part while giving it a quarter turn; and hold it for at least 30 seconds.

Sponsor · 2022-01-29T12:20:58-0800

Kordts · Jan 4, 2007

I do almost all service work. I use the blue wet or dry glue for everything. It dries so quick that it's great for ejector and sump pumps and kitchen drains.

Dunbar Plumbing · Jan 4, 2007

One thing I always do is after I make up a solvent weld connection, I always take the primer dauber and do a once over completely around the outside of where pipe meets fitting.

It removes/thins the globs of glue that sometimes oozes out and when the joint is solidified, it almost looks like glue was never used.

I never use the purple primer...feel sorry for jurisdictions that enforce that.....it looks horrible no matter what you do with it.

Molo · Jan 4, 2007

A Do-over?

What do you think guys? Did you read the first post? Should I re-do that connection or is it O.K.?

TIA,
Molo

Jimbo · Jan 4, 2007

On a drain, if it tests with no leaks, I would leave it. In hot weather, a pipe would not move after a minute or so. In colder weather, the set up is slower, so moving it at the point that you did probably did not ruin the joint. If this was a pressurized pipe, I would be a little more concerned. And I certainly would want to see a wet test on this joint before it was buried or hidden in a wall.

Prashster · Jan 5, 2007

This happened to me. I used a slower setting pvc cement and had to keep pushing it together. Eventually after a couple mins it wouldn't move. It seemed to work fine. However, my inspector required the drains and vents to be filled to 5ft. Under steady, solid pressure, it leaked pretty easily.

If it were me, I'd be concerned that in the event of a backup, the joint might fail. Therefore, (IIWM), I'd cut the joint out and re-set a new one. I'd either use a quicker setting cement or hold it for a 4-5 minutes before releasing.

Cass · Jan 5, 2007

RUGGED said:
One thing I always do is after I make up a solvent weld connection, I always take the primer dauber and do a once over completely around the outside of where pipe meets fitting.

It removes/thins the globs of glue that sometimes oozes out and when the joint is solidified, it almost looks like glue was never used.

I never use the purple primer...feel sorry for jurisdictions that enforce that.....it looks horrible no matter what you do with it.

RUGGED where did you learn that?

KD · Jan 5, 2007

Why chamfer female?

Bob NH said:
Technique for cementing PVC pipe joints:

1. Cut the pipe square and chamfer the inside and outside.
2. Apply cleaner to both the male and female parts.
3. Apply cement to both the male and femal parts. No holidays (missed spots)
4. Insert the male part into the female part while giving it a quarter turn; and hold it for at least 30 seconds.

Why would you chamfer the female part, such as an elbow? Isn't it already chamferred at the factory? I understand if you have to cut an elbow or a coupling in a tight spot it would need to be chamferred.

Randyj · Jan 5, 2007

I just cut, knock off any ragged edges, then prime and glue. The welding takes place by melting this stuff together and pretty much melts any small ridges left in the cut area. Perfectly square is nice but really is not necessary if you get a decent weld.
At one time purple primer was required here just so the inspector could verify that the primer was used. It may be ugly but when it's covered up or hidden under a floor or the dirt no one really cares. I've got to learn to plumb with gloves to keep all that glue off of my hands.

Bob NH · Jan 5, 2007

kd said:
Why would you chamfer the female part, such as an elbow? Isn't it already chamferred at the factory? I understand if you have to cut an elbow or a coupling in a tight spot it would need to be chamferred.

Please notice that I said, "1. Cut the pipe square and chamfer the inside and outside." The subject of the sentence is "pipe". I didn't say anything about fittings in that sentence, which was the ONLY place I mentioned chamfering.

I want to get rid of burrs that will collect stuff in drain pipes and affect flow in water pipes.

Dunbar Plumbing · Jan 5, 2007

Cass said:
RUGGED where did you learn that?

I learned that from the digging/excavation crew for the service plumber I worked for in Cincinnati when I was a union plumber.

I'd be the one called out to bring the drain cleaning equipment when they were digging up those inner city jobs and found a root ball or dead body in the drain.

So sometimes I'd have to watch these guys and noticed they were doing this procedure a lot...and asked them why they did it.

They told me they do it because when dealing cell=core pipe and fittings that the application of primer over the finished joint is a sealer of sorts. It was recommended by the boss on all piping systems whether it was SDR-20, SCH40 or SDR-35.

Ever since then I've been wiping my solvent weld connections in PVC and it's a habit I can't break because the finished product looks so good.

It really looks like the pipe and fittings are dry-fitted it looks so clean.

Hard habits are hard to break; I don't even work much with it anymore, a 1/2 quart of glue/cleaner will go bad through the year before I need to replace it with new. <<<< I'm glad to not be around it anymore. I can thank being in the service side of plumbing for that.

Gary Slusser · Jan 5, 2007

RUGGED said:
One thing I always do is after I make up a solvent weld connection, I always take the primer dauber and do a once over completely around the outside of where pipe meets fitting.

It removes/thins the globs of glue that sometimes oozes out and when the joint is solidified, it almost looks like glue was never used.

Since you get globs, you haven't been following the directions stating a thin full covering coat only.

And I suppose you then reuse that dauber to clean other fittings before solvent welding them. Any idea what problems contaminated cleaner might cause joints?

I would err on the side of caution and not reuse that dauber for cleaning but then, I've never paid much attention to pretty, I always go for the practical over beauty. That's what I would tell anyone complaining about how it 'looks'; "ya want it to look pretty or work right?".

And there's only one way to 'do it right', and that's to do it right the first time rather than wiping away evidence of my sloppiness and/or mistakes. I take the time to do it right the first time and save untold hours undoing things. I learned that just before I was 18 in explosives handling where it's guaranteed that your first mistake is your (and your buddies) last.

You're much better off leaving it look like it was glued (read proving it) than not... And since the cleaner thins disturbs dilutes and probably breaks the surface tension of, the 'glue' in the chamfered area, that might not be a good idea either.

Dunbar Plumbing · Jan 5, 2007

Okay internet plumber, I'm wrong. Now go sell something.

Might I add a bit of valued knowledge:

Years ago when cell-core came to the area the owners of supply houses were telling us plumbers to apply glue heavily on the ends of the piping AND wipe those outsides with cleaner because the air tests to pass inspections on the 1st 2nd and final roughs were failing as a result of compressed air travelling inside the cellular structure of the pipe. I recall the late 80's.

Charlotte piping foundry sent out letters to the supply houses in the area stating this issue is arising since it is nearly impossible in the building phases of construction that a water source would be readily available to do a water test on the DWV system. IT was then the responsibility of the seller to let us new construction plumbers know because I'm sure the problems existing with the new style of piping could have a damaging PR effect down to the mfg. There, I said it. It's on the internet. I'm so glad I have let this off my chest as I've been holding it back for years...

So who's right, the mfg. years ago or one gary slusser. Find out on the next maury povich show.

Randyj · Jan 5, 2007

I'm gonna keep doing it my way.... waste alot of glue... It has worked for the last 30 years and I've never had a complaint about how pretty it looks. And, I don't have problems with leaks or blow outs.

Phil H2 · Jan 5, 2007

Gary Slusser said:
Since you get globs, you haven't been following the directions stating a thin full covering coat only.

And I suppose you then reuse that dauber to clean other fittings before solvent welding them. Any idea what problems contaminated cleaner might cause joints?

I would err on the side of caution and not reuse that dauber for cleaning but then, I've never paid much attention to pretty, I always go for the practical over beauty. That's what I would tell anyone complaining about how it 'looks'; "ya want it to look pretty or work right?".

And there's only one way to 'do it right', and that's to do it right the first time rather than wiping away evidence of my sloppiness and/or mistakes. I take the time to do it right the first time and save untold hours undoing things. I learned that just before I was 18 in explosives handling where it's guaranteed that your first mistake is your (and your buddies) last.

You're much better off leaving it look like it was glued (read proving it) than not... And since the cleaner thins disturbs dilutes and probably breaks the surface tension of, the 'glue' in the chamfered area, that might not be a good idea either.

Gary,
Have you ever worked with PVC pipe. Globs happen - fact of life. It takes practice to avoid globs. Experiance reduces the mess, reading direction (while good the first try) don't cut it. Gosh, the variables in the type of cement can make a difference. The ambient temperature seems to make a difference. Saying that you never have PVC cement globs is like saying you never have solder globs that need to be wiped-off or never have leaks in soldered joints. I can solder pipe everyday for months without leaks, as soon as I say that I never have leaks, guess what happens.

"Pretty" is a sign of craftsmanship and a person's pride in their work. The time required to make a professional looking job is negligible. I would never dress up a joint by cleaning it with primer; but I am not going to make-up a bunch of reasons why I don't like the idea. I don't know if it is a good idea or a bad idea. I wipe off any excess. 99.9% of my work with PVC has been with medium and heavy bodied gray cement. For me, the ideal joint has just enough cement to form a fillet between the fitting and pipe.

On a more informative note, chamfering the inside of the pipe provides a smooth water passage. Chamfering the outside prevents the pipe from scrapping PVC from the fitting's socket. A sharp edge on the OD can act like a plane that can scrape a big shaving of the softened PVC whichs ends up in the inside of the joint and also compromises the joint's integrity.

Kordts · Jan 5, 2007

When I was doing water parks, the pipe was sched. 80 PVC up to 14" diameter. Most of the foremen just wanted you to bang it home and get it done. We used come-a-longs to pull the pipe into the socket. One foreman had a router that we used to bevel the ends of the pipe. We could just push those joints together. We used to clean the off the joints like Rugged does if it was above ground in the filter houses.
When I was bungalow bustin' some towns made us stack test. One of my foreman had us "wrap the joint" like Rugged does, except we did with the glue dauber. Never had a leak after that.
Cutting square is extremely critical, I have seen DIY joints that were cut on such a bevel, that 1/4" of pipe was all that was in the socket on one side and the other would be bottomed out.

Gary Slusser · Jan 5, 2007

Phil H2 said:
Gary,
Have you ever worked with PVC pipe. Globs happen - fact of life. It takes practice to avoid globs. Experiance reduces the mess, reading direction (while good the first try) don't cut it. Gosh, the variables in the type of cement can make a difference. The ambient temperature seems to make a difference. Saying that you never have PVC cement globs is like saying you never have solder globs that need to be wiped-off or never have leaks in soldered joints. I can solder pipe everyday for months without leaks, as soon as I say that I never have leaks, guess what happens.

"Pretty" is a sign of craftsmanship and a person's pride in their work. The time required to make a professional looking job is negligible. I would never dress up a joint by cleaning it with primer; but I am not going to make-up a bunch of reasons why I don't like the idea. I don't know if it is a good idea or a bad idea. I wipe off any excess. 99.9% of my work with PVC has been with medium and heavy bodied gray cement. For me, the ideal joint has just enough cement to form a fillet between the fitting and pipe.

On a more informative note, chamfering the inside of the pipe provides a smooth water passage. Chamfering the outside prevents the pipe from scrapping PVC from the fitting's socket. A sharp edge on the OD can act like a plane that can scrape a big shaving of the softened PVC whichs ends up in the inside of the joint and also compromises the joint's integrity.

Phil, yes I have, 20 years on water lines.

"making up reasons"! fillet phil...

Yes it takes practice to do anything right. I didn't say I never had globs, I simply said done right, you, well actually my good buddy Steve, won't have globs; as you too are saying. BTW, can you help me out and interpret what he said up there?

Doing things right has always given me a great sense of personal worth and professionalism but how do you know what my plumbing looks like?

Solder globs do not have to be wiped off, and if I have a glob, I add a bit of heat and have it drop off while helping it with my roll of solder. I do not wipe joints. I'm soldering multiple and various fittings in two separate short lengths, 1-5' each, of tubing and I solder all at once. Wiping can move joints before solder totally solidifies and that causes weak and leaking joints.

Yeah I have the tool to do internal and external chamfering of plastic tubing/pipe. And I ream copper tubing.

Kordts · Jan 5, 2007

If you wait til the solder tins up you can wipe your joint. It looks a lot better if you do. I like to soak my solder rag in water, so when I wipe the joints they shine.

Gary Slusser · Jan 6, 2007

I've seen wiped joints plumbing in some of the damnedst/dumbest routing to and from equipment that could be done; but the joints looked nice.

Some guys insist that all water line plumbing has to be squared, only verticle or horizontal.... not true.

I don't square a lot of the water lines I plumb. I reduce the number of elbows to the minimum every chance I get.

PVC Glue Technique Question

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