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Thread: Where Should the Whole House Filter Go?

  1. #31
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randyj
    ... chunks of black ...
    I had been hoping our filters might keep that hard black layer from building up inside the connector for our second pressure tank (after the filters), but no, they did not help a bit there. I have about a foot of clear hose making that connection, and now that hose looks like it has been painted inside. Our first pressure tank (still ahead of the filters) had been in service for a little over 12 years before I discovered its connection had been nearly closed off by that hard black stuff. Whatever causes that, I know we will likely need something like Gary is talking about if we are to ever be rid of that problem.

  2. #32
    Rancher
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    Good water has no taste, it's the things in water that give it a good or bad taste..
    Perhaps you should say pure water, or distilled water has no taste, the bottled water distributors add "stuff" to filltered/distilled water to make it taste like water. I guess in all the places I've lived in Ariz, that ground water is "good water"

    Rancher

  3. #33
    Rancher
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    Well except for that Alkali flat just to the NorthEast of me... perhaps the water isn't so good there.

    Rancher

  4. #34

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    Leejo.. Have you taken your water in for analysis lately? There are lots of microorganisms in the earth that get into plumbing and cause this growth. If you check out the walls of an old septic tank they are also black. Bacteria growing on the walls of things can/do break them down. There is a class of bacteria which utilize iron as well as some which utilize sulfur...those bacteria definitely can give a little twang to stored water.

  5. #35
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    I guess I have tried to oversimplify the idea of galvanized pipe not rusting. Of coarse it will rust if you take off the galvanizing. And galvanized pipe in the ground will rust and get pinholes. I think you will find most galvanized pipe will rust due to electrolysis as oppossed to mineral content in the water. The minerals tend to protect the pipe by building up in layers. This is of course detrimental to your water flow and pressure. That's why I recommend plastic pipe for distribution lines. I still like galvanized in the well for the sake of being able to get a stuck pump out after many years of service.

    bob...

  6. #36
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randyj
    Leejo.. Have you taken your water in for analysis lately?
    No, but I did spend $15.00 (plus shipping) for an at-home "test kit"! According to those several results, we have no nitrites/nitrates or anything else bad, our softener is doing its job, and we have a Ph of around 8.5 ... but I have no idea what that means.

    Quote Originally Posted by Randyj
    There are lots of microorganisms in the earth that get into plumbing and cause this growth ... There is a class of bacteria which utilize iron as well as some which utilize sulfur...those bacteria definitely can give a little twang to stored water.
    Yes, I have at least heard about the iron-related bacteria. When we first got this place a couple of years ago, it had been empty for a year and the one filter we had at that time was quite black. Since then, however, the only black I have seen is the hard scale inside the tank connector, and we have only had that "twang" a couple of times, once badly, yet without any "black" either on the filters or past them.

    At the moment, I am planning to remove the anode from the water heater to see what effect that might have in relation to our slight come-and-go or varying sulfur odor that is occasionally more in the hot water than in the cold.

  7. #37

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    Maybe you should have a biological assay done on your water just to see what you're drinking. pH is a mathematical expression of the concentration of hydrogen or hydronium ions. A pH of 1 is very acidic and a pH of 14 is the other end of the spectrum which is basic or alkaline. If you understand logarithms ... it is the negative log of the concentration of H+ ions... I have a b.s. in microbiology and had to eat lots and lots of chemistry. A pH of 7.0 is "neutral". Ph 8.5 is quite alkaline. I don't have a clue which is best but "things" act/react differently according to the pH when they are in solution. If you've got "stuff" growing on plastic then you can pretty well assume it's not merely being deposited by "electrolysis" although that might be possible.

  8. #38
    Rancher
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    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho
    No, but I did spend $15.00 (plus shipping) for an at-home "test kit"! According to those several results, we have no nitrites/nitrates or anything else bad, our softener is doing its job, and we have a Ph of around 8.5 ... but I have no idea what that means.
    I bought and used one of those test kits, I assume you mean the one reported on in that Consumers magazine the Reports one, it does a very poor job at measuring PH, I compared my results with the pool PH tester and it was off about 1.5 on the Alkaline side... so your water could be neutral.

    Rancher

  9. #39
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by leejosepho
    No, but I did spend $15.00 (plus shipping) for an at-home "test kit"! According to those several results, we have no nitrites/nitrates or anything else bad, our softener is doing its job, and we have a Ph of around 8.5 ... but I have no idea what that means.

    Yes, I have at least heard about the iron-related bacteria. When we first got this place a couple of years ago, it had been empty for a year and the one filter we had at that time was quite black. Since then, however, the only black I have seen is the hard scale inside the tank connector, and we have only had that "twang" a couple of times, once badly, yet without any "black" either on the filters or past them.

    At the moment, I am planning to remove the anode from the water heater to see what effect that might have in relation to our slight come-and-go or varying sulfur odor that is occasionally more in the hot water than in the cold.
    A hot water only odor problem is caused by a reducing bacteria; either sulfate, iron or manganese reacting with the the anode rod. Removing the rod voids warranties. You can try using a different kind of rod but that doesn't always solve the problem. The only guaranteed solultion is to kill the bacteria.

    UV lights can not be used without causing another problem so you must use chlorine or ozone. Hydrogen peroxide usually doesn't work well either.

    The EPA acceptable range of pH is 6.5 to 8.5. It used to be 6.9 to 8.5. The 8.5 is alkaline/caustic and anything less than 7.0 is acidic.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

  10. #40
    DIY scratch-pad engineer leejosepho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rancher
    I bought and used one of those test kits, I assume you mean the one reported on in that Consumers magazine the Reports one, it does a very poor job at measuring PH, I compared my results with the pool PH tester and it was off about 1.5 on the Alkaline side... so your water could be neutral.
    I do not know whether that is the same kit, but it is easy for me to imagine my results could be questionable even if only because I had to match shades of colors on various charts. Also, I forgot to mention one test indicating we have the maximum acceptable ppm for chloride. There is someone nearby I can call about some better testing, and I just might do that in the spring after we have had a couple of nice rains.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    A hot water only odor problem is caused by a reducing bacteria; either sulfate, iron or manganese reacting with the the anode rod.
    Someone somewhere, maybe the well man, had once told me our black scale could be from manganese.

    Quote Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
    Removing the rod voids warranties. You can try using a different kind of rod but that doesn't always solve the problem. The only guaranteed solultion is to kill the bacteria.
    I believe our water heater is old enough to be past warranty, but yes, that would be something to consider. I went looking for a different rod a few days ago, but the place I went did not have any at all and the man I talked with there told me he just pulls rods and throws them away. At the moment, I am planning to pull ours and see what difference that might make as to our sulfur odor, but overall, I am inclined to have at least some kind of rod in there.

  11. #41
    That's all folks! Gary Slusser's Avatar
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    That black, it more than likely is from H2S. Manganese isn't the same as manganese reducing bacteria and it's not likely that the black is from manganese but it could be, depending on how much is in he water.
    Gary Slusser Retired (= out of business)
    Click Here to learn how to correctly size or program a water softener.
    CAUTION, as of Nov 12 2013 all YouTube videos showing how to rebuild a Clack valve have an error in them that can cause damage.

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