Sump Pump Starts and Stops Constantly

jackofalltradesman said:

"If a pocket of air is in the area where the impeller is turning, IT WILL NOT HAVE ENOUGH FORCE TO OPEN THE CHECK VALVE."
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Sounds like a very weak pump, that is, a pump that is stopped by a pocket of air. In any event, there are ways to work around the issue of air-lock without resorting to drilling the hole. I mentioned one with the electronic sump switch/ high water alarm /DC back-up set-up that I have, and that is exactly the system I recommended for someone with frequent cycles. Another possible solution is a stronger pump that is not locked by an air bubble or possibly something like the built-in check valve on a strong sump like the Flotec Floodmate 7000, or the Hydromatic 1/2 h.p, the Wayne 3/4 h.p. or 1 h.p., etc. I wonder if more powerful pumps are immune to this I never use 1/3 h.p. pumps like tract builders, so maybe that is why I never see this issue in any homes.

You call the water backflow out of the pipe on each cycle a "small amount". The water that comes out of that hole is all of the water in the 1.5" pipe from the hole up to the check valve. It could be about a half of a gallon or so. For someone who has constant water coming into their drain tiles, starting off with an extra half gallon in the pit is the LAST thing they need.

The solution I came up with to deal with high water table/ frequent sump cycles is what I actually installed in my home. I have to say it works great.

I never heard of the requirement for the hole in the discharge pipe 30 years ago, but if Zoeller recommended it then, maybe they should consider a better solution to air-lock now. Just like the electronic switch in place of the old unreliable and problematic tethered float, there has to be a better way.

As a builder, I would like to see a pump company come up with a sump pump system that does not air-lock, that has no tethered or mechanical float, and maybe even an electronic monitoring capability where a homeowner can have a digital monitor upstairs that gives them status on the pumps operation, water level in the pit, how much water is being pumped per hour, back-up battery charging/ status, etc.

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mrncfg said:

If I could get back to the original posting of this post....meaning the pump starting and stopping constantly.....my question would be this:
My pump runs constantly too....however, the water is actually coming in under where the drain tile feeds into the pit...we are on a high water table....pump runs every 2 minutes.....we lost power friday....and i stopped the back up from running to see how long it would actually take for the pit to overflow.....didn't overflow for the 2 hours we didn't have power. Was thinking it may be a good idea to raise the pump up on bricks, or use piggy-back floats so that the water gets a chance to backflow into the drain tile, and doesn't run quiet as often.

Is there a problem with doing this??

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mrncfg said:

If I could get back to the original posting of this post....meaning the pump starting and stopping constantly.....my question would be this:
My pump runs constantly too....however, the water is actually coming in under where the drain tile feeds into the pit...we are on a high water table....pump runs every 2 minutes.....we lost power friday....and i stopped the back up from running to see how long it would actually take for the pit to overflow.....didn't overflow for the 2 hours we didn't have power. Was thinking it may be a good idea to raise the pump up on bricks, or use piggy-back floats so that the water gets a chance to backflow into the drain tile, and doesn't run quiet as often.
Is there a problem with doing this??

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carmel corn said:

As in a lot of things, it's not just the specs but the quality of the equipment. I would tend to think that a 1/2 or 3/4 hp pump would be too much for most residential basements. IMHO - a Zoeller M-53 or Hydromatic VS-33 are 1/3 HP units and plenty strong for the vast majority of residential pits without having too much HP (I personally like the float mechanism design on the M-53 better because it tends to not get "gummed-up" as much as the SJE mechnical floats on the Hydromatics...tradeoff is that the M-53 does not feature a piggyback style plug and has fewer lifetime on/off cycles vs. other mechanical types). Second, these type of units have a built-in vent hole which helps to eliminate air-lock (Zoellerpump still advises drilling the hole in the event the small built-in vent hole clogs). I personally would stay away from Flotec.

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jackofalltradesman said:

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We stopped using the Zoeller 1/3 hp mighty mate because of lack of reliability over time and upgraded the standard sump pump spec to 1/2 h.p. cast iron.

I have no dog in the sump pump manufacturer contest, and we do not use Flotec, but it looks like they make pumps that cater to folks at different price points. The Flotec 3/4 h.p. 7000 was, I thought, intriguing in that it has a built in check valve and excellent specs. Sears and Home Depot carry it (which is not an ultimate endorsement by any means) but it must not be complete junk or I am sure they would not have it.

As far as the size of the pump, once you make the move to increase the amount of water pumped during each cycle, yes, you want some giddy-up on the h.p. to get that water out of there.

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carmel corn said:

I absolutely agree with cast iron...too much plastic junk out there, especially at the big box stores. Curious - what were you seeing as the reliability issue on the M53's?

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jackofalltradesman said:

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Nothing wrong with the Zoeller M53 and that is obviously one of the best names in the industry. Having said that though, we thought that the Might Mate just used the venerable name Zoeller on a lightweight product. We had a few problems and complaints about those (why do you use a cheap plastic punp?) within the first year so we upped the spec to "1/2 h.p. cast iron sump pump" in our contract spec and in our sales material. Most plumbers here use the Zoeller pumps, but we don't specify brand name.

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carmel corn said:

I believe the M-53 is cast iron (except the base and impeller). I'm still curious as to whether there were any performance issues specifically with the M-53?

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jackofalltradesman said:

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The pump the former plumber used (and which was problematic) was a Zoeller but was not the "M-53." It was a cheap plastic pump that we discontinued when we got rid of that plumber. I don't know the model number but I saved one of them and took a picture.
This pump is the reason we now spec sump pumps as " 1/2 h.p. cast iron" and no longer just specify a brand name....

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Zoellerpump said:

The weep hole has been in the installation instructions from Zoeller for 32 years, they have been preaching this for 36-39 years.
You know, we are not the only pump maufacturer that has this in their installation instructions, just about every submersible pump manufacturer uses this advice as well!
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Most do, but not necessarily the way Zoeller recommends doing it.

Rigid Tool's instructions (I think Wayne actually manufactures their pumps) call for a check valve mounted right on the pump.

Similarly, Flotec and Wayne actally market threaded check valves ( perhaps Zoeller does too, but I did not check) Those check valves have a smaller factory hole (closer to 1/16 ") which is located in the very small threaded area between the check valve and the pump. The smaller factory hole does not spray out as much as a hole created by using a 3/16" drill into PVC (the recommende method by Zoeller and a few others). Furthermore, because the hole is located in the small space beween the pump and the check valve there is almost no backwash.

Now we can have our weep hole to protect against the dreaded air lock, but not have to allow a half-gallon of back wash from the pipe back into the pit on each cycle.
As far as Zoeller and any other manufacturers that feel they have to "preach" about how to drill a weep hole, why not either build in a check valve with pre-drilled weep hole
or provide this $5 part with all their pumps? or come up with another solution. The old way is not the best way in this instance.

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