How do plumbers decide on what to charge?

[Cookie]

I hear what you are saying, Mark, but in one respect, I have to add something. People I think are underpaid. I think that is alot of the problems, why people steal, etc, want more bennies than entitiled to, call in sick, etc. Now, some time ago, I road thru Mickey D's, and ordered a coffee. Not black, but with cream, no sugar. I would like a stirrer, cause my finger doesn't stir well in 3,000 degree temps.

I yell in the clown's face, one large coffee, 2 creams, no sugar, one stirer.

I get up to the window. I grab the cup, and leave. I am driving down the road, and I open it up. I got a cup of hot water.

Nice.

The next morning before work, since I am a creature of habit, I drive thru Mickey D's. I yell into the clown face. Same order. I drive up to the window, new girl, grab the cup and leave.

I am driving down the road, I open the cup up, and, WOLA! TEA.

Next, morning, I get up. I am not only a creature of habit, I am a glutton for punishment. I drive thru Mickey D's. I yell into the clowns face, same order. I drive up to the window, new girl. I pull up, look in the cup, and see something black. I smell it. Smells like coffee, now where is the cream? I drive back thru, yell in the clown face I need 2 creams and a stirrer. I drive up to the window, the arm extends out, a bag. I start down the road, and I open up the bag. Gee, I got an egg McMuffin.

I eat the Egg McMuffin, and drink the coffee black.

Next morning, I am now on a mission. I drive thru Mickey D's. I yell into the clowns face, same order. I drive up to the window, new girl. I said, " where is the girl from yesterday?" I was told she quit. I grab the cup, and got a bag also this time, and I pull off to the side, open it up, and I got another black coffee. Now, I am thinkingl...ok, they didn't put the creme in, it is in the bag. No such luck. A whole bag to put a stirrer in. What the sam hell was I supposed to stir?

I parked the car. I walked in. I am standing in line and I ask the man/manager, why is their such a turn-over of people here, and no one can get a simple order right. "WELL, it is like this...we pay them peanuts, they stay a week and quit." He said, " here take this for your trouble."

I got outside, stirred the creamers into my coffee and then, looked at the card he gave me. It was his phone number.

Just exactly what was I getting for my trouble? I never called it. I don't think I want to know.

The next morning, was a Saturday. I drove thru yelled into the clowns face, and waited at the window. Honest to God, their was 2 people working the front. The woman told me, no one showed up.

I left. Never been back since.

[master plumber mark]

when you pay people peanuts I guess you cant expect
much more than monkies working for you....that is true

I gave up trying to figure it all out... especially when you
pay someone 18- 20 per hour , give them health ,
and usually a x mas bonus of around $1000

a truck to drive, and dont ask them to do anything that
I would not do myself.....

and they refuse to work overtime....and act like that they are
doing me a favor showing up in the morning????

probably because they need the weekends off to
do all the side work that they lined up during the week
with my custoomers.......


I dont care anymore.....to hell with them

they can all eat URINAL CAKES...

[kordts]

A urinal cake is also called a piss mint in some areas. You don't wanna know how long the flavor lasts! Randyj, I have had way too many people want a low rate because of all the work they are going to bring me. I tell them, "I can go broke looking out the window, so why do I want to go broke bustin' my ass?" I have never, ever made any extra money by giving some clown a break. By taking in less money on a job, I have to make it up somewhere, which means screwing somebody else. No thanks, I charge everybody the same, except vets and their widows, who get 10% off; and that comes out of my pocket. I don't jack up my rates so I can give phony discounts.

[kordts]

If your husband was a vet, you still get the discount. My stepmom, who is the village clerk, tells me that many of the widows who I have done work for, come in to the village hall to pay their bills and tell her how nice of a person I am and how good of a plumber I am. My dad took care of the water and sewer in town for 30 years. He did a lot of stuff for free after work for people who didn't have the money to pay. It makes me feel good that I am earning my own good reputation. Widows and orphans have a special place in my heart, because they have a special place in God's heart. There are some wealthy widows that I charge full boat, and others who are on a tight budget, who get a bargain. If I bill 30 hours a week, I break even. Over that, and I make money. Some weeks, I can be more generous than others. I have too much money in accounts receivable for my liking, I haven't been able to tithe to my church as much as I like.

[Randyj]

I'm just trying to survive on what I make and pray that I can keep on working for at least 10 more years...then I'll be 65 and can get medicare...I'm definitely not trying to low ball the big guys. I just hope that I can establish a good enough clientel and reputation that I will never even think of the possibility of having to take a job so I can make enough money to pay bills. As for vets and widows... I don't have a pricing structure so I'm pretty much calling it as I see it. The only way I would have employees and pay one $20 per hour is if that person produced enough to cover his own overhead plus at least an extra $20 per hour to cover bonuses and all the days that he leaves me hanging one way or the other. If it is like I've seen in the past only 1 out of 10 applicants are worth hiring and 1 out of 10 of those are worth keeping for more than a few months and 1 out of 10 of those are worth considering as a permanent employee. Until they've been there they have no idea of what it takes to operate a business. If you charge $120/hour you can hardly pay an employee $40/hour for the time he/she actually works which is about 1/2 the time... so $20/hour...or a busy person on a 30%-40% commission is what it is going to take to keep a business afloat...because if you can't pay $20/hour you're not going to get much out of a good employee and if he's not worth $20/hour then you don't need him/her. Local car dealerships charge $72 per hour in their garage. It cost me only $135 to have my taxes done (I already have them prepared...they just plug my numbers in...very easy...takes less than an hour)... To talk to my niece, who is an attorney, costs $175/hour. People around me are paying $100k-$200k for lots and the price of this property is skyrocketing. Lots of these houses are going for millions.... and I'm sure that in the not too distant future I'll feel just fine charging $120/hour and not worrying about being called back. As for accounts receivable....I receive at the time of services...only exception is two regular customers who I KNOW will be paying in less than 60 days...and one of them is the State of Alabama. Hey... I really thank all of you guys for your input on the pricing ideas, prices, etc. Although I've been doing plumbing for many years I'm still new in the business and it has been really good to me. I love it...or am a glutton for punishment.

[Cookie]

That is all anyone is trying to do, is to survive. In all professions their are laws regarding reasonable charges. I don't know if everyone realizes that. I learned that recently when I sued this plumber. Because his charges were not reasonable or fair. So, it is there. Not trying to be smart. The lawyer I just paid for was half that cost. He was 90 an hour. And, I won. I do my own taxes. If you only have to fill in the numbers, Randy, I would do it myself and save that money. Some of the tax laws are being changed, so you may have to read up for next year.

One of the tax laws that is being changed concerns donations. I read where you will need to show proof of those donations, instead of being able to take a standard deduction. So, anything you donate, cars, clothing, puters you will need those slips of papers. The article I read also, went on saying, you will need to show, why it is worth that much. Their were other changes as well.

[Randyj]

yep... I know about the donation changes too. The biggest reason I go to a tax places is... I like the comfort of having someone else's name on that bottom line! I've been self employed for many years now and have NEVER been audited... wanna keep it that way....

[Cookie]

I look at it this way, if you are audited, you get your mistakes corrected for nothing, lol. Like being in school.

[Randyj]

If I should ever get audited I'd probably be doing serious time. I do keep impeccable books but have a very difficult time doing it. Usually end up putting a whole years worth of tickets and receipts on the computer in one week then sorting them... all on a spread sheet...no canned programs.

[molo]

Hello all,

Ignorance is bliss. A plumbers knowledge often forces them to face ethical decisions. This usually happens when the customer has limited resources. I saw this problem when I worked for a family-owned plumbing business. My uncle and I would get called to some poor-persons home for an inexpensive repair. We would get there and discover all sorts of safety problems with the existing gas lines, furnaces, hot water tanks, etc. Then you have to tell the customer, only to scare them out of their mind about how they're going to go broke to get this stuff fixed. The customer often would say that they can't afford to fix it right now. HEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM....... What do you do? 1. Fix it anyway for no pay? or 2. Leave and hope nothing happens to the family living there?

Interested in the pros opinions on this one.
Molo

[master plumber mark]

you did n ot make the plumbing mess that they live in.....

and possibly you dont know anything abou them either...

you can only menton the problems to them

and note it all on your work order-bill......


It also depends on what is wrong and how charitable you are feeling that particualr day.....



remember
no good deep ever goes unpunished...

[Dunbar Plumbing]

We would get there and discover all sorts of safety problems with the existing gas lines, furnaces, hot water tanks, etc. Then you have to tell the customer, only to scare them out of their mind about how they're going to go broke to get this stuff fixed. The customer often would say that they can't afford to fix it right now. HEREIN LIES THE PROBLEM....... What do you do? 1. Fix it anyway for no pay? or 2. Leave and hope nothing happens to the family living there?

Interested in the pros opinions on this one.
Molo

Can you imagine the guilt involved if something does happen and you find out by the local news?

Here's how those situations go: If you can afford a house, you can afford the repairs. Usually a quick look around in most of those cases you'll see the vices that got them there. Not all but most. Talking from 20 years dealing with John Q. Public to make that statement.

I did one of these types of job that involved 3 hours and $85 material only to find them in front of me at Arby's loading up.

Anytime I see a water heater or furnace that is venting improperly in a home.......I wait a few days and contact the local utilities that there is a situation. It forces them to deal with the problem/correct it so that there isn't operating in an unsafe manner anymore. People assume that because no one is dead yet that it is okay. It's not.

There is a church I did work for in my area that keeps dodging the bullet about a water heater ran in 14/2 jumped off the 110 leg of a electric stove circuit which is a 50 amp breaker. <<< Tell me what happens first; the wire frying or the breaker tripping? You already know.

Since it is a church they feel "protected" by God and they will be okay in the event that heater thermostat decides to trip.

Since I feel I was a representative of good faith involving the matter and its seriousness, I've refused to do any more work there until the electrical problem is resolved with that water heater. Plenty of sunday offerings there to protect a building of innocent people expecting that water heater to be installed correctly, not because the church is running on broke and a member put the heater in like a vaccum sweeper.


My point for rambling is if that house is not fit for human life, contact the appropriate people and let the powers that be sort out their fate. You would expect it from others if you indirectly didn't understand how dangerous your present situation really is.

[Randyj]

Yeah..but I do have to wince when I see they have DSL, a big screen TV, Dish Network and a shined up escalade...and on section 8... but don't want to pay my very reasonable rate.....while there are 5 kids running around and "she" has never been married. It has happened to me...

[kordts]

Cookie,
while your attitude that plumbers should fix stuff for free is admirable, what about me, my family, employees and church, not to mention the other organizations I give to on a monthly basis? I have commitments that I must honor. I need to do work that pays the bills so I can keep the wheels turning. I guarentee you that there enough people out there who "can't afford" my services that I could work for free from now til the Lord comes. It's a lifestyle decision, plus poor budgeting and neglected maintenance that leaves people unable to afford plumbing. The people that truly can't, I discount, the slugs gotta pay.

[Randyj]

My one customer today works in a bank, drives a BMW, and I was working on his modest vacation home... was in shock when I mentioned that the company my son works for charges $120 per hour. His son vouched for my comment. Yet, he still was a little uncomfortable with the $150 I charged for repairing a frozen/busted 3' CPVC which I had to build 1 female adapter & 3 ells...then removed two toilets to auger out all the way to the septic tank. He had NO VENTS....still he did not hesitate to pay for my 3 hours after I mentioned the price other guys charge and I'm sure I could have pushed for double that amount...but would have a hard time finding more work in the neighborhood.