@Jim DeBruycker: What IS wrong with you? Don't you have a life? Yes, yes, if you do everything perfectly as Schluter reccomends, and all the plumbing is perfect, as Schluter reccomends, then everything will be 'perfect'. Otherwise you will be im-perfect, and thus rot in hell, along with the sheetrock backer you used. And if you did use cement board - well then you are not 'pure' and may not go to Schluter Heaven.
Your acting nuts Jim boy!!!!!
After reading all your rants I think that maybe you should start the 'Schluter Religion' - convert as many as possible. Just as any religion, you want to convert others to your belief.
So what? Why do I, or anyone else give a Rat's A** about your opinion. It's unreal to read your insistance about a product that you have no connection to.
You're correct Jim - Schluter is the 'tile god' or 'shower god' or 'membrane god'. It's all good. Calm down and put your GI Joe pajamies on and get some rest.
I have done a lot of showers (3) and I've found some really exciting things to share with you.
First my main concern was the cost of the drywall behind the Kerdi. I mean you can spend $30 - $50 dollars for that drywall. Well I've solved that problem!
The other day I was at the liquor store. Ya know, they have a lotta boxes... Well I got a boat load of them, and took'em apart real careful (it's more relaxing to listen to some Deliverance music). So I stapled the boxes to the studs - did two layers, and made sure not to overlap the seams.
Then I had some left over varnish that my son hadn't huffed - and applied it to the cardboard. I figger a nice waterproof substrate. So right here you've saved over fiffty dollars!!! Then that unmodified thin set ( hey it's 1/2 price cause it was 5 yrs old) - stuck that Kerdi real gud.
I mean since the Kerdi stuff is waterproof - ya can go right over dat cardboard!
And hey, it worked! We've been using the shower for a couple a days, and everything is fine. We may even put up some tile.
John, don't feel too bad gettin' adivice from a fella like me. I'm sure in time you'll be expert like me.
So who is the lesser of 2 evils? Big Red Shoe or Big Wrench/Ego?
And, where is that an approved, tested backer material? Just more BS, like John trying to do a bonded mudbed over a decoupling membrane - use the products as they were designed, and they work. Choose to do it otherwise, and all bets are off. Should you question your ability to do it per the instructions, build it better. Don't trust the materials, use something else. Invent your own, be prepared to back it up like the manufacturers do with testing, training, support, and their money. Talk is cheap, the advice I give is based on the manufacturer's instructions. If you don't believe me, read them yourself.
Originally Posted by DougB
All kidding aside - and I do a lot of it. John is a real pro - and he has a lot of real world, documented examples, sucesses.
Then come's some 'tool' like Jim, who doesn't know what he doesn't know. Shoots off his mouth. Actually, I'm not going to feed the Red Shoe troll any more. He can post whatever he want's. If he gets no response, he's outta gas.
As an aside, the Red Shoe is really a spolier. He's all over the internet. If you ask a question he gives his half assed opinion - and thus spoils other more qualified responses.
I'm with John - that John Bridge form with CX - that's artificial - a broken record - 'follow the manufacters....'. I can see the change in that forum from 3 years ago when I went there for advice for my last bathroom.
Really Mr Red Shoe. Do you understand that was all a joke? Not understanding humor is one of the first signs of a serious mental health issue. I do not say this as an insult - my wife does this stuff for a living.
I saw it for what it was...not everyone reading this will.
Companies that have been in business for a long time rarely propose bogus solutions to the use of their products, especially one that has been in use for decades...lots of successful outcomes when there is a reasonably workman like install. That a product can fail if it is not used properly should be a given. To point out or express that it is certain to fail without any substantiation is wrong. All the examples of drywall failing when not used according to an accepted, tested procedure with thousands of successful results and independent test results showing it working is just wrong. There is more than one way that has been tested and approved to use Kerdi to make a shower, but it is up to the installer to decide what he is comfortable to use, but any of those materials will work. If you don't trust your plumbing skills, a cbu backer may not prevent eventual failure, as a slow leak could easily end up with the floor and studwalls rotting out before you noticed. Not counting that wet wood is a magnet to carpenter ants and termites which bring their own problems.
Just curious... has anyone ever seen a Kerdi shower, properly installed over drywall, that failed? :)
Dana you would need to work for a living building showers to see failures.
There are no documented failures for any system online. None for Hydro Ban. None for Red Guard. None for NobleSeal TS. That is not a point.
Anyway. Dana - you make me sick. Letting that advice stand where the fellow has slope issues with the Kerdi pan. Both you and Jim make me sick.
No Kerdi failures? Anyone? :)
The suggested answer, should you choose to check verses bashing everyone for no cause, is to tear the foam pan out and start over. As opposed to here, where John Whipple thinks he is the only one that should give advice, there are LOTS of people, well qualified, that can and do offer advice on www.johnbridge.com. And, when they give that advice, they don't do it in insulting and promoting themselves as superior and the only one that knows anything.
Originally Posted by johnfrwhipple
I do not read every message on every board. I also do not read messages from you - why would I, the most I get from you is insults.
Originally Posted by johnfrwhipple
In the situation above, the OP failed to follow the instructions when installing a foam tray - he tried to install it over a non-level subfloor. The instructions clearly say to ensure the floor is level before installing it. He tried to do it with thinset, then stood on the thing to embed it and do other work...well, what you'd expect happened...it sunk, negating the effort to do it his way, rather than the way the instructions said. Sort of like John Whipple not following Schluter's NA instructions. I wonder if he ever thought about the fact that thinsets in the USA meet one spec, and those sold in Europe meet a different one. The manufacturer's instructions differ because the materials differ...but, to extrapolate that to infer that the NA instructions are inadequate, is not a valid, logical result. What is logical is that the manufacturer tells people how to install their products with the materials available such that the end result is reliable. Creating fear and uncertainty is one way to make yourself look superior, when in fact, it has no substantiation. I've been trying to get a copy of the European thinset specification, but I'm not willing to pay over $100 for it...I'm still looking. What I expect is that the filler size (sand, etc.) and minimum cement volume in the thinsets sold between the NA and European markets differ, and that given the specs, thinset alone cannot make a fully reliable, waterproof seam in Kerdi with the European spec thinset like it can in the USA, and in order to ensure it is waterproof, they call for seaming it different.
But, John takes the difference to infer and promote question that one is superior to the other.
If I do get a copy of both specs, I'll try to summarize the differences in a separate thread. But, in the meantime, I believe the manufacturer knows his product and what it takes to make it work...John doesn't. Thinsets in the USA are rated according to A118.x and in Europe according to BS EN 12004.
You and Dana should make a new thread just with Whipples emails. That should be good reading. He must be much nicer in a private email than he is in a open forum.
Sorry, no can do. All trolls are placed on ignore.
And please, please don't quote the trolls. Thank you. :)