I have one 3.5 toilet that may get used 6 times a day.
If I change it out to a 1.6 toilet, how much savings can I realize? In dollars.
Here is a sample of a water bill similar to water usage in my home. 2 people.
I'm wondering if it is cost wise to change the toilet.
1 MCF = 7,480 Gallons of Water. For your extra gallons, you pay $0.00394 per gallon. With your numbers, you would save $16.40 per year.
Originally Posted by Reach4
I think the formula is more complex than that, Just by looking at the way that bill charges.
There may be some sewage savings.
If I had a $250 water bill I would move to a better location.
Cleveland is high class now I guess.
And to think people piss n moan when they get a bill for $3000.00 to replace a pump, pipe and wire along with the labor that has provided them with water for 15 years.
Originally Posted by craigpump
Counting the electrical power, that would be less than $25 a month.
I figure the GOV will have us metering our private water wells soon.
Not sure how they will Tax the air that we breath. But technology is getting better.
That sample bill is for 3 months (not 1). The meter read dates were 3/12 and 6/06. So, it is like $80/month. The example user used ~15,000 gallons [2 MCF] (or about 5000 gallons per month).
Savings (gallons) would be 6*(3.5-1.6)*365=4161 gallons/year
If all charges are proportional to use (ignore fixed charges), you would save about 82% of one months cost (4161/5000)*80 = $66.58
It looks like about $7/month out of the $80 is fixed, so the real savings would be closer to: (4161/5000)*73 = $60.75/year
These are all rough numbers, but should be pretty close. We would need a better breakdown of sewer charges, etc. to get closer.
Oooh..., yes, I missed the sewer charge and "local charges". Big omission.
Originally Posted by DonL
If I presume the "local charges" and sewer charges stay proportional to water, that toilet now saves $57.09 per year -- 348% times as much as I had originally calculated. If those other charges were not proportional to the water portion, that changes things of course.
Originally Posted by nukeman
Good Find nukeman.
That sounds better.
I guess they save by reading the meter every 3 months.
Like a lot of things, your return on investment may never catch up with your initial investment, at least in the short term., especially if you have some lawn irrigation water in the mix.
I am familiar with Cleveland Water and yes they bill quarterly. They bill for water usage to figure what is owed to them and they also bill for the NEORSD (Northeast Ohio Regional Sewer District) and bill for them. Other local charges on the bill depending on the community or suburb served may be for trash collection or something else that water consumption does not affect
SO water consumption affects:
1. the Cleveland Division of Water bill
2. the NEORSD sewer charge
$55.45 is what the NEORSD charges per MCF of water consumption to treat sewage.
$29.48 is what the Division of Water charges for a thousand cubic feet of water after the first 0.6 MCF
7480 is the number of gallons in a MCF
Disregarding any fixed charges for the water, a gallon of water cost $29.48 / 7480 = $0.0039 (which is 0.39 cents)
Disregarding the base charge for sewer, the cost to treat a gallon water is $55.45 / 7480 = $0.0074 (which is 0.74 cents)
So the total cost for a gallon of water is $0.0039 + $0.0074 = $0.0113 (which is 1.3 cents)
If you save 4161 gallons a year by saving 11.4 gallons a day by saving 1.9 gallons per every 6 flushes,
Then you save (4161 gallons) * ($0.0113 per gallon) = $47 a year.
Sewer rate is $58.15 per mcf per quarter. Fixed fee of $21.00 per quarter for the meter.
Based on the example... 2mcf times $58.15 = $116.30 for sewer plus $21.00 = 137.30.
Our suburb does not get charged the $51.31 local charges shown on the bill. So back that out.
Where am I at now, with savings, for the expense of a new toilet?
I type too slow. Seems hammerlane has it figured out. Thanks.
So it seems that if I upgrade to a Toto Drake for 300 or so dollars if will take me about 6 years to break even?
Yeah if you live in a suburb you get charged a little more for sewage than Cleveland residents.
Originally Posted by 6t7gto
Believe it or not I kind of already had this figured. My grandmother(Bless her heart) would not flush the toilet after each sitting for #1. So I figured it out for her to see how much see is actually saving from not flushing. It turned out at that time to be just about one cent.
Originally Posted by 6t7gto
In LA, where water is a scarce commodity, I pay about 0.75 cent per gallon (including sewer charge).
In CLE, where water is abundant, people pay 1.3 cent per gallon? - makes no sense at all.
But as far as your savings switching to TOTO: I think it's worth it. In LA changing to 1.6 tanks is the law.
The real winner is the water supplier. When every customer switches to 1.6 toilets, they end up delivering less water, except they don't pass the saving (of maintaining their pipes, upgrading or changing the, and other costs) to their customers.
In other words, they over charge (or rip off) their best customers. Now you know how they can afford to offer sky high salaries to their employees.
In LA we say: If it's yellow, let it mellow. If it's brown, flush it down!
Back in 2011, the Water Dept raised rated drastically. They cited declining revenue. Which was a result of declining usage. So they had us conserving water but then backdoored us by raising rates.
Originally Posted by dj2
Must of been the motto my grandmother lived by.
Originally Posted by dj2