That's good to know - thanks for the info. I've had the Champion for about a year and a half, and have not had any problems yet (other than annoying clunk). It actually has performed very well - no clogs and no leaks. First sign of trouble and I'll be looking for this new flapper-type flush valve. -Dog.
Friends don't let friends buy an American Standard Champion toilet.
We went to our local independent plumber's showroom in town and asked for a toilet with these features -
Great flushing.
Quite operation.
The last thing we were concerned about was cost. We were trying to get over The Toilet From Hell so we wanted the best. The guy on the desk showed us the Champion and said it was the best flusher and quiet. We bought it and I installed it myself. It was expensive.
Then our nightmares really started. Whoever designed that tower flush valve should be taken outside, tied to a tree and shot 3x.
You press the handle. IF the little plastic pawls grip the inside of the tower the damn thing comes up with a big "CLICK" followed by a house-wakening "CLUNK" as the tower drops and then the sound of a jet plane taking off as the syphon action (enough to flush a fur coat or a double sleeping bag) scares the hell out of you and wakes our deaf cat.
Guests would come out of the bathroom and ask (wide-eyed) "What the hell was that?"
But sometimes (maybe 25% of the time) the pawls wouldn't grip the tower and you'd press the handle and you'd almost go on your head as there was nothing there.
We stuck with this monstrosity for a few months until we couldn't take it no more. This thing was landfill unless they would replace it with something else.
Long story very short - the dealer we got it from admitted he'd never seen or heard one in action so he had no idea about its noise and intermittent performance. He couldn't (wouldn't) give us a credit but he phoned A/S for us and left a message for them to call us. They never did. Finally I got hold of them myself and told them of this noisy, junk toilet. I told them that we'd asked for a "quiet" toilet and had been sold this thing.
The lady thought she had me as she claimed "We don't advertize this as a quiet toilet!"
I had her by the b@lls as I said "I have your brochure in my hand and it SAYS "This toilet is so quiet that you can say goodby to waking everyone up at night with noisy flushing". She fell silent.
She then offered me any other toilet in their line and they would send a plumber 90 miles one way to install it for me and take the other one away. That's what I was after!
We chose their Cadet. Two weeks later a plumber arrived and removed this monstrosity and replaced it with the sweetest crapper we can image - the beautifully quiet Cadet. Get one!
The Champion was not American Standard's finest hour.
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/as/champion_cathy.jpg
C'mon, Zozzie -- don't hold back. Tell us what you really think :D.
Quote:
Originally Posted by davecoon13
Well, you need to be very careful about Wiki. Here is the actual stories.
American Standard toilets are alive and well. In July, American Standard Companies ( parent of American Standard Kitchen and Bath products, Porcher, Jada, Trane, et al.) SOLD the kitchen and bath products division to Bain Capital Partners, a global investment firm, part of the same consortium who purchased the $15 billion commercial division from Home Depot this year. The $1.6 billion American Standard kitchen and bath products division will retain the American Standard name. The parent company will continue the HVAC division, and will take the name Trane. All this information is quickly found via a google, on reputable sources like Wall Street Journal on line, Bloomberg on line, CNN news, MSNBC news, etc. Unfortunately, I put wiki only one notch above **** in reliability. Use it at your own risk.
It's sorta like a plumbing forum. You have no idea if a particular piece of advice is coming from a seasoned pro, or from jack the ripper. You bear the burden of putting the reality check on it, and doing lots of research. But to toot our own horn for a minute, this forum has a longstanding reptutation, and is "policed" by so many seasoned pros that any misunderstanding or off-the-mark advice is usually countered quickly with a follow up.
Anyway, the Champion and Cadet III are here to stay!
I can't! Oh yeah that was the short, edited and abridged version. It was six months of effin' around with excuses and non returned calls before it was resolved.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mikey
That statement makes me predict the next problem for this perpetual lemon of a toilet...Quote:
Originally Posted by jluksic
The broken handles are going to start stacking up like cordwood.
This is from a company that at one time was recognized as the best!
IMHO Am. Std. stopped making toilets with the passing of the 1.6 GPF mandate... They have been downhill ever since!
I love that leaking patch on the back of the trapway!
http://www.americanstandardclassaction.com/
I purchased my Champion toilet from Home Depot in December 2004, after the Mandfeild 3.5gpf toilet that came with my house got clogged for the last time. I spent $275 on it with the seat. My first reaction to this toilet was that it was huge. Then I realized it was ADA approved height. Installation was pretty straight forward. I did have the concern others had with torquing down the tank bolts. It is a little crooked, but it doesn't leak. I have never had a problem with the toilet. I haven't changed any parts. It doesn't leak, and it will flush anything down that I put in it with one flush, every time. And we have got used to the Clop that you get when flushed. In the 3 years I have owned it, it has never clogged. I also have a Toto Drake in the powder room downstairs. I have had to unclog the Drake 3 times since I owned it. The last time was last night after my 2 year old used it. The funny thing is that it has its own, unshared drain pipe. The other things I do not like is that the tank lid never stays in place. It always gets pushed back when the seat cover is opened. And I've noticed that recently it will not complete a flush unless you hold the handle down a second longer. I purchased the toto a couple of months after the champion. So I have the same amount of use of each. So, like I said before, I may get another.
wow - based on all the negative posts, I thought I had the only Champion that seemed to work well .... I guess maybe they made 2 good ones!
I thought that I either got lucky or no one else knew how to use the thing. And now they have a new valve, so the toilet will be even better.
I don't know how old your page is, but I did some research when my american standard champion (actually part brazilian part mexican not at all standard) flush valve started giving me fits. Made some calls and just as I was about to order the part ($25-$35) to replace the one I pulled out/destroyed (I thought a 'universal' replacement kit would work) I found out from a local distributor that they re-vamped the mechanism and if you call they send you a new one free. Mine is on it's way. The new 'tower' is more compact and the notoriously flimsy gasket is now built into the tower. A bit of a pain in the ass, but not to difficult to fix on your own. Of course I get to keep flushing my toilet with a bucket of water until the part comes in and deal with the complaining wife 2nd to that....
Good Luck.
Ed
We installed a American Standard Champion toilet (build in 2004) about 2.5 years ago. We do not have a leakage problem. So far the toilet works ok. After having numerous other toilets which didn't impress us at all it rates a good average. Once in a while (every 6-8 months) the chain will get a kink and water runs continuously. We usually catch it pretty fast. We also installed a Toto which performs in my opinion better. The tank fills faster, the toilet flushes more quietly and I never had a problem with kinking chains.
C. Veihl, 12/26/2007
My plumber installed an American Standard Champion toilet two years ago on his recommendation and there have been flush valve problems ever since. I have gotten a new plumber after new parts did not work and the original plumber finally called it a lemon. I am buying a new toilet of another brand.
Rich Toohey Chantilly, Virginia
Just got this toilette - leaking red seal - what apiece of junk.
Steve - Canada.
I bought a champion toilet about 6 mounths ago. It is nothing but trouble. It has the newer flush tower and fortunatley I have had no leaing problems. The problem I have is that the flush tower releases too quickly and often fails to flush. On rare ocasions it flushes properly, but in most cases, little or no water is released. The flush tower apearas to be very prone to hard water fouling. A small amount of scale inside the tower is sufficient to case the pre-release problem. Only solution seems to be regular cleaning of the center section of the flush tower. This is ridiculous!
John S
Three AS commodes. All three have leaking red gaskets. Replacments still leak. Where can I find red gaskets that work? JL 5 Nov 07
http://www.americanstandardclassaction.com/
http://www.terrylove.com/wc/as/champion_new_part.jpg