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LOL There you go again with vague instructions, deliberately so that you can later claim that we didn't follow them to a T. What is the point of stopping the draw and rinsing out the Iron Out right away rather than giving it some contact time to work?Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
It's still acceptable to call that 'irrigation'. And I am commenting on your statements.Quote:
Originally Posted by LLigetfa
Still acceptable to be called 'irrigation'.Quote:
Originally Posted by LLigetfa
But loaded up Birm can't oxidize any ferrous iron getting through the air oxidation... Reading that leaves no doubts as to what is causing your softener to have to deal with iron that gets through the air injection and Birm filter. I guess you mistakenly think backwashing is going to get all the rust off the Birm...Quote:
Originally Posted by LLigetfa
By the time you notice it it's way too late.Quote:
Originally Posted by LLigetfa
Are you just playing dumb or is it factual? The slow rinse/brine draw draw doesn't stop unless you turn off the water!! I didn't say to turn it off, remember? So if you want more contact time, shut off the water for as long as you want to; really it's OK and just fine with me.Quote:
Originally Posted by LLigetfa
BTW, I gave you the specific explicit precise directions of my "trick" as cartonykid Tommy called it, a few days ago and you have been questioning them ever since.
BIRM does not change ferrous iron to ferric iron through oxidation. It is a catalyst. Period. Oxygen is the oxidant. BIRM works under certain water conditions and not under others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
Call it a retention tank or a precipitation tank, doesn't really matter as long as it has a drain at the bottom to remove sediment or precipitants.
Air injection systems using a precipitation tank uses the tank for two purposes; one--to oxidize iron (and other elements) into ferric state and two--to create dissolved oxygen levels of 15% or more in the water to be even and consistent in order to make the BIRM work effectively.
If the water coming out of the top of the precipitation tank is already ferric (red water), then I recommend draining the precipitants more often. If ferric iron is chronic, then I would recommend adding Filter Ag to the top of the BIRM. I don't believe BIRM is intended to filter but to act as a catalyst in enhancing iron conversion.
Water enters the tank through an elevated tube and exits through the top. The tank has a drain lower than the incoming tube. Neglecting to drain the precipitants causes the precipitated iron to accumulate and rise above the incoming tube, causing it to agitate and travel north out of the tank.
http://i165.photobucket.com/albums/u...g/IMG_0161.jpg
"Birm, acting as a catalyst between the oxygen and the soluble iron compounds, enhances the oxidation reaction of Fe++ to Fe+++". That would be ferrous to ferric no, and on the surface of the Birm right?Quote:
Originally Posted by water solutions
That's from:
http://www.clackcorp.com/downloads/i.../birm_2350.pdf
Yes that works for Kinetico and their sales people like you, and other national companies that want to be different (read keep their customers in the dark) so they make up their own names for things instead of using the industry standard names. Retention means time and it takes the right amount of retention time for precipitation to take place.Quote:
Originally Posted by water solutions
So you are saying retention/contact time isn't involved with a "precipitation" tank.Quote:
Originally Posted by water solutions
"The physical characteristics of Birm provide an excellent filter media".Quote:
Originally Posted by water solutions
That is also from the link above, repeated here;
http://www.clackcorp.com/downloads/i.../birm_2350.pdf
Two serious errors in one post Andy.... and I didn't count the one where you skipped over retention/contact time. And what is that picture supposed to show us?
"cartonykid" I can't find this word in the dictionary and spell check is having a hemorrhage with it too. LOL
If it's supposed to be cartoon(y) kid, I'm not the one with Donald Duck for an avatar which BTW is nice but incorrect for the quote below it which is more correctly associated with Porky Pig.
Why are you dragging me into this? I'm just by-standing watching the fun although what I have gleaned from this mostly useless and stupid conversation is that there is a lot of misunderstanding on both sides and the juvenile need to make sarcastic remarks based on improper word use or poor descriptions of either processes, equipment or both. Keep it up though, it's most entertaining and perhaps the guy that lambasted me on another thread for remarks I made there has by now noticed that I am rarely the instigator here. LOL
From www.dixionary.com: cartonykid - [kahr-tony kid]
noun The picture of a lost kid on the back of certain milk cartons.
Wow, who'd a thunk. They are just making up words now aren't they?
Someone is making up words...
Yeah I've noticed that too, like "oversaturated", once something is saturated, you don't get it more saturated. Or, "precipitation tank" for retention tank. Or garden hose to hook to a sprinkler that isn't a type of irrigation.
Cartoonyguy Tommy....
BIRM does not oxidize iron. It is a catalyst. That would be like saying stepping on the gas makes your car go forward. It doesn't. It increases the speed but doesn't make it go forward. A catalyst increases reaction but it doesn't make it react. That is the ultimate basics in water treatment media. You said it yourself when you quoted the word "enhance". But tio say that BIRM oxidizes iron is not correct. You need to understand what catalyst is and does.
Also not correct--again--in describing me...it's getting kind of funny. I am not sure what works for Kinetico or why that was even brought up---again. But I seem to remember someone going on and on and on and on and on about the Kinetico warranty and then being proven he was wrong. Instead of coming back and admitting, he claimed that Kinetico, Inc. was keeping him in the dark---again.
If you don't know what the picture is, then I am not surprised by your knowledge (or lack thereof) of just what it is we are talking about. Can someone else help him here?
I don't think so. I tried showing Gary a cutaway drawing of my tank but he still described it as something different.Quote:
Originally Posted by water solutions
I don't have a retention tank. I have a hydro-pneumatic precipitation tank purpose built to precipitate iron through oxidation.
since we are not allowed to use technical terms like catalyst, words that have more the three syllables, nor are we allowed to use math, charts, field experience, or common sense, I am sorry but I dont think I can be of much help either.
Oversaturated - According to free dictionary dot com, it means to saturate to excess. In my feeble, two-month-old mind, if you watered your yard till it was FULL of water, it would be saturated. If you added even more water, until there were puddles sitting on the ground, that would be oversaturated.Quote:
Originally Posted by Gary Slusser
Precipitation tank - According to wordnik dot com, a receptacle into which a liquid is run to give an opportunity for any solid matter carried in it to be precipitated. Sometimes precipitation is promoted in such a tank by adding certain ingredients or by a change of temperature.
According to science dictionary, a sewage tank in which a chemical is added to the sewage before it passes to the sedimentation tanks
Retention tank - According to my research, mostly used to remove E. coli or coliform. "The use of retention tanks for iron bacteria, sulfur and iron applications is a way to create extra income and service calls for in home sale companies and online companies who are either ignorant or looking for residual income from unsuspecting customers." http://www.***********.com/retention_tanks.htm
Another site says: THERE IS A DRAIN AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TANK. OPEN IT PERIODICALLY TO FLUSH THE SETTLED SOLIDS OUT. SOLIDS DO NOT SETTLE PERFECTLY. OFTEN THEY WILL STICK TO THE SIDE OF THE TANK. THE MOST EFFECTIVE WAY TO FLUSH THEM OUT IS TO EMPTY THE TANK. OPEN THE INLET AND ALLOW WATER TO FLOW IN WHILE THE DRAIN IS STILL OPEN. THIS WILL ALLOW THE TANK TO BE CLEANED MORE THOROUGHLY. RUN THE WATER UNTIL IT APPEARS CLEAR. (LL, based on your iron problems, you might consider doing this if you haven't been already. Just a thought.)
Ahhhhhh...but I also see that the word is not yet defined. Maybe Einstein can come up with something when he's not busy loosing arguments :cool:Quote:
Originally Posted by Cookie