So then, why do you insist it is always wrong to do the same with a child?
Originally Posted by Cookie
I surely do agree there are many parents who hit/beat/spank either in ignorance of how to actually train/teach/nurture or else just out of convenience or whatever, but that does not prove anything other than their ignorance or sloth.
Let me give you another scenario ...
I have a granddaughter who is developmentally challenged, and she simply would *not* voluntarily eat *anything* other than cookies or ice cream and such. As part of some on-going therapy, my son-in-law was shown how to place a little food in her mouth and then stick one of his fingers in her mouth and stimulate her tongue and cheeks so she would hopefully develop the instinct of chewing and swallowing, but she still just would *not* eat anything other than sweets on her own.
Spanking was then tried a little bit and did seem to get her attention, but I could easily see how that would eventually do harm ... and so, I began using a spray bottle (like for Windex or whatever) with clean, cool water. She truly hated that water hitting her face, but then I would quickly and gently wipe her face and give her a simple command: "Eat." I suppose we could have had a tube placed into her stomach or something, but that little girl ultimately had to learn to obediently eat even thought she had no idea what it would have meant to die if she did not.
Why do I insist it is wrong to do this to a child? I don't understand what you are saying. By law, an adult man can simply assault another adult man/woman and be held for a crime; yet, "spanking" which is thought of as a benign and innocent act one does on a child is yet, not. It should be. It is assault.
All assault should be unlawful and punished by law.
I spanked quite a few girlfriends, and they thought it rather intriguing.
One poor nice mother got thrown in jail for hitting a bad kid on the butt with a wooden spatula in a park. Things have gotten way out of hand.
My lonely and drunk worker rubbed a butt in a festival, and now he is a registered sex offender. Ruined his life.
I hope you didn't need to pay them, lol.
So, far as the nice mother, she wasn't so nice to hit her kid and I applaud her being in jail. The way it should be. What intrigues me, is, why people think, it is fair game to hit a kid as long as it was on the buttocks. This kind of thinking amazes me.
Your friend, never learned to look but not touch? His parents should had taught him this. He got what he earned. Now, he knows. No excuse to ever do it again.
What the courts are also, missing is, the fact that when anyone is touched inappropriately, it is not only a sexual crime, but, also, theft. That person, will never regain what that criminal stole. The charges should be both for sexual, and theft.
And, a monetary value should be placed on the theft, and that should be paid to the victim.
Damages need to be paid.
Sorry, but rubbing a butt in a crowd of drunk 17 year olds in scanty attire is not a sex crime. They probably were spanked by their boyfriends 500 times since age 12, and the boyfriends didnt think much of my guys miniscule grope... A normal societal reaction would be to kick the old sad guy in the nuts.
It was the political pull parents that got him busted, and it should have been for annoying a "minor" [a minor slut] - not a registered sex offender, which he is certifiably NOT. They ruined what was left of his life, and without my loans and job, would have put a bullet in his mouth by now.
No theft was involved in touching this girls butt, it had been stolen thousands of times already. I have seen drunk drivers that killed a family get less time than he. No money, no ability to speak; no justice.
As to paying for spanking, the beatles song "Those Ukraine girls really knock me out..." sums it up. Over there the cost of a good steak dinner will get you 2 ex olympic gymnists that will spank each other while hanging from a chandelier by their legs... amonst other possibilties. Very good for ones health and fitness, and cheaper than a Chiropractor. Alas, married with kids has removed those playtimes to memory.
Rape is a violation of someone's anatomy. How many times she was touched by someone with her permission is not the issue; the issue at hand is, she was violated, touched, without her consent. Her body, her right, and she was yet, a minor. He got educated.
If you want a Ukraine lady, I would read this first.
You must be our local man-hating prosecutor. A butt touch is not a rape or a crime, its just stupid. He didnt lure her into his car. It was a vast party. Besides which, the little slut should have been at home in bed. Prosecute the parents.
Dont get me started on the Ukraine girls. Having hundreds of cousins near that dreadful but beautiful country, I have travelled there at least 25 times. Starting in those beautiful days when you could have the entire rear section of a 747 to yourself.
The KEY is that you [lacking family] meet someone in a safe and normal way, like through exchange or penpals or even the dating sites. [US based ones ] then you rent a car in Vienna and drive the backroads, and stay away from the tourist mecca's. Now you meet real people
and learn the culture. You rent a car if in the Ukraine with a driver/bodyguard, and now you can meet a 'normal' woman.
The Ukraine girls were, for some time, very popular in Slovakia for prostitution. Really, a few of them were ex top olympic gymnasts, and rather than making 40 cents an hour in Ukraine, they were making 100$ an hour. There was one sweet one that I actually started dating, and working on a visa for, and made the mistake of sending her a letter with some photos of us in it. On my return, I learned that the Russian mob that handled the girls, intercepted the letter and killed her or made her wish she had been. Could not get the real story through the friends tears.
Had a Slovak wife in my early days, and the local guys thought she was mail order bride - actually a distant cousin that came to work for me- So four of them brought in Russian wives of various quality on wife junkets - line em up and pick one out! 2 are divorced after they drained the bank accounts, 1 pair lives apart, and one set seems fairly happy. Crapshoot, like most of life.
No, I like men. It is rapists that I don't. But, it is what it is concerning rape. Rape is rape. Most men know, you can look all your want, but, where it concerns touching and that of a minor, you are begging for trouble. What men do not understand is that rape is alot more than just what they think, it is not just physical, something is stolen more than just physical, although that also, is stolen. It is a theft of never feeling safe again, and no matter the age, but especially, with a young girl, no matter if she was touched before, it is a theft of innocence. It is for all who is raped, a loss of peace of mind, it becomes a PTSS situation which can and sometimes, does last a lifetime. You might not know all the facts concerning this man. You may think... you do, from what he is only telling you. You might had been snowballed by this guy. Where are the lines supposed to be drawn concerning rape? Is it okay, for a man to touch this or do that, but, not this or not that? No. Nothing should be done without that woman's consent, and rape is not just a female occurance. As you see with Penn State. Was it okay he did what he did in just the swimming pool? Was it okay for him to just touch a young boy's groin area or the butt? No. He had no right to touch. And, my friend, that is the bottom line. Is he going to tell the truth? What he has said right now, makes it seem like nothing but horse play, and your friend, might had done the same to you, and to others. Your heart maybe was in the right place to help a friend, but, you can't tell by looking who is a rapist, look at Penn state coach, look, how many others, had said and done nothing or not enough; look at how many innocent lives had been changed, forever.
Sometimes, you don't know all the facts. Rapists, make things look and sound so innocent, like it was the woman's fault, the young girl was asking for it, by the way she was dressed, and, even if she was naked, he had no right to touch. He should had respected himself, and others, especially, the youth. This Penn state coach, in some way, will make those young boys sound at fault, it will happen. Rapists are very good liars, because they actually, believe what they are saying, they cannot see theirselves for what they are. They don't want to. They are cowards.
The courts need to realize rape is more than just the physical loss and maybe, the physical damage some people are hurt, badly beaten, and killed, but, it is also, a theft of innocence, like those young boys, and, that young girl, no matter what you think, but, also, a theft of something that victim will never ever regain. Peace of mind. And, when a rape occurs, it can be relived in nightmares, terrors, and something can trigger a memory, for years to come. It is without a doubt the most serious crime as it effects all in that person's life, forever.
I feel so badly, for those young boys. I hope he goes away, for a long, long, long time. And, those who didn't do enough for whatever reason, should join him.
I forget the stats on it now, too many years, but, most women will be raped at least once in their lifetime. Now, that is, could be, your loved one. Your mom, your mother, your sister, your daughter, or even your son.
I can assure you that if the town had a few prostitutes, and far better, a legal house of prostitution, this sad and harmless guy would have been rubbing a willing butt with gusto and not bothering some little tart with a wistful brush or stroke.
A country like ours, with such pathetic and false victorian 'virtues' spends millions to entrap men that need a natural outlet for a natural act; Rather than make a profit from it.
Then they spend millions to put lonely drunks in jail for brushing up against a rape baiter.
Whats with this 18 age of consent? These tarts starting giving consent at age twelve. So if he brushed up against her on her 18th birthday, the charge would have 'drunk in public'. Makes sense to you?
Rape is the guy that came through your window with a knife.
Rape is a violation when someone touches another person without their consent. It can be under any circumstances. In a swimming pool like the coach of Penn State did, or breaking and entering, or at a party, or bar, the circumstance in which it was done has no bearing on it. It also, doesn't matter if the rapist is high on drugs, drunk out of his mind, or simply out of his mind, if he rapes he did a crime, and that is punishable by law. If he touched a 12 year old girl or boy, I hope the punishment is even greater. How would you feel if someone close to you was raped? Your 5 year old son? Someone you loved? What if the tart was your 12 year old daughter or granddaughter? Would she still be a "tart"? Would she still had "deserved" it? Does this make sense? You may not think, she was a "tart" but, what if, another man did and raped her. How would you feel if, it hit home with you? I hope it never does, but, people, kids, boys and girls, women of all ages, are raped everyday.
Where do you draw the line on what a man can do to a young child? Or another? When does he not have the right to "touch" another? Who makes that judgement call? The man? Why do you feel the man has that right to decide what is okay or not, on what he can do to another's body and life?
What you said about what rape is, breaking into a window with a knive, excludes the coach in the swimming pool fondling young boys, then. Touching their butts. Was that not rape to you?
You should be the assistant local DA, and we would have to build a new jail. Your definition of rape far exceeds Websters.
In the case of REAL rape, every girl or boy needs of those on the right at their bedside. Almost every random house and street crime I have observed had no living security system.
No, not really, not at all. So, you think, the coach in the swimming pool is innocent of rape?
The definition of rape is by the way, exactly, as I put it. It is a violation... read it for yourself, look it up. You will see.
What is REAL rape, and NOT REAL rape? What is the difference?
My husband used to train attack dogs in the military, his arms had enough scars to prove it. I know, too, dogs are great, but, they can be taken out of the equation along, with security alarms. Alot, of times, you can't have your dog, and you can't carry along your house alarm. I suggest other things instead, but, you can't arm a kid with it. For that, it is being with your kid alot, and even then, look at the boy scouts, the church priests, and many other places like the coach volunteered at. Education is always the key.
I agree with you Cookie, but little teenie bopper 12 year olds should not be allowed to dress (by their parents) like sluts. Boy are boys (any age) hormones are mighty potent and the tool has a mind of its own it seems. grown men have to think before they F up and ruin another's life as well as their own. Also what goes on between adults and kids is absolutely disgusting and should be grounds for castration when proven.
Originally Posted by Cookie
Men are men, boys are boys, their is a difference, and men, should know not to prey upon a young 12 year old girl. It is not the amount of hormones, it is the amount of brains. And, what does a little 12 old boy dress like or act like to f up someone else's life. It is NOT the way a person dresses, if that were true, why do little boys get raped? Why do nuns get raped? Or 88 year old women? It is the mentality of the person. A rapist has a mind that is wired different than another. Usually, anger is the culprit, they need to control, to manipulate, in order to survive.
Think about it.