venting shower

I'm trying to vent my shower and came up with this mock-up. This will be between the floor joists separating the first and second floors. The 3" straight waste line on the right is coming from the second floor bathroom group and is already vented. The shower will also be on the second floor but will drain into the 3" drain here. The 90 w/heel will then turn down vertically into a wet wall on the first floor. Two questions. I'm a little shy of joist depth to be able to stack that wye/1/8 vertical to accept the line from the shower p-trap. I would be ok to roll that wye as long as I don't go beyond 45 degrees correct? #2... am I really venting the shower If I take a vent off the top of that 90 w/heel and go up through the roof (I have a wall I can pass it through above there) or does the vent have to come off of the trap arm between the p-trap and where it connects to the existing drain shown (which will be miniscule in length plus be underneath the shower pan so I couldn't go vertical from there)?

Thanks, Jeff

The heel 90 is not a fitting you can use for a vent. That needs to be a sanitary Tee. The shower is not vented, as shown.

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Originally Posted by jimbo

The heel 90 is not a fitting you can use for a vent. That needs to be a sanitary Tee. The shower is not vented, as shown.

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Well, now I'm really confused. Here is a quote from Terry on another thread about the heel 90's

" They only make the Santee bend in the lo-heel, which is what is always used for venting.
It it was a shower or lav, it would have to be a santee bend going from horizontal to vertical. "

Isn't that what I'm doing in my layout? I have a book showing some fittings. They call the fitting I have a "low-heel vent 90" and it's right next to a "waste t aka san t" What are the differences in the two and why call it a vent 90 if it can't be used as a vent? So, if I changed that fitting to a sanitary Tee, would the shower be vented? If not, what would be your solution? How about the other question on rolling that wye?

Thanks for your help, Jeff

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Originally Posted by jimbo

The heel 90 is not a fitting you can use for a vent. That needs to be a sanitary Tee. The shower is not vented, as shown.

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Just wondering. Is it because I have that fitting laying flat in the picture that is causing the problem, because it will actually be standing up vertical, vent coming off the top, not the side, or does that still not count? I just didn't take the picture with it in it's correct vertical position.

I understand it will be vertical....and I am open to correction if someone says they can be used like that.

Bump HJ or Terry, any thoughts?

The UPC would allow the LHO 1/4 for just the toilet, but the shower messes things up. You should put a 3X2 wye below the LHO with a 2" 1/8 looking up, then a 2 X1 1/2X 2 san tee. The shower drains into the side of the tee and an 1 1/2" vent goes up. Tie the vents together up higher, 42" above the floor would please the inspector. There are other ways to do it, but I can't suggest any without seeing the whole situation.

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Originally Posted by asktom

The UPC would allow the LHO 1/4 for just the toilet, but the shower messes things up. You should put a 3X2 wye below the LHO with a 2" 1/8 looking up, then a 2 X1 1/2X 2 san tee. The shower drains into the side of the tee and an 1 1/2" vent goes up. Tie the vents together up higher, 42" above the floor would please the inspector. There are other ways to do it, but I can't suggest any without seeing the whole situation.

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Tom, thanks for your imput. I actually had mocked up almost the exact thing you are describing but was hoping to avoid joining the two drain lines in the vertical wet wall as it's going to get tight in there between the two studs plus having to fit a shower valve in that space as well. It just looked like a waste of space as the shower drain and that 3" drain line will now have to run next to each other separately between the floor joist and also 90 down through two top plate holes before wyeing together. It just would have made for a cleaner install to join them in the horizontal stud bay, but no biggie, I'd rather do it right. I won't need to use the LHO if I can't vent off the top of it since there is no toilet in this configuration, I'll just use a regular 90 on that 3" line and put the wye below it to accept the shower drain. I think I have room to put the santee in the shower drain line up in the floor joist bay before it 90's down through the top plate, then run the vent off the top of it. That will help with the clutter below as well.

Just curious, you have any idea why that LHO would be ok for a toilet vent, but nothing else? Have something to do with where the vent opening inside the fitting is maybe?

By the way, this house I'm building is in Thompson Falls, not too awfully far from you.

Thanks again, Jeff

To a homeowner, I'm sure that the waste and vents are overkill. Until you have to start using them.
You can't run a bathroom group past the shower without venting between the wye and the trap to prevent siphoning.

The Santee can be used vertically, but that gets trumped by the bathroom group running into it.

The suggestion above, putting a wye on the stack, bringing it up to a 2.0 x 1.5 x 2.0 santee and having vent for the shower makes the most sense.
I have no idea what the 3x2 lo-heel would be venting, if the bathroom group is already vented.

http://terrylove.com/images/dwv_b2.jpg

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Originally Posted by Terry

To a homeowner, I'm sure that the waste and vents are overkill. Until you have to start using them.
You can't run a bathroom group past the shower without venting between the wye and the trap to prevent siphoning.

The Santee can be used vertically, but that gets trumped by the bathroom group running into it.

The suggestion above, putting a wye on the stack, bringing it up to a 2.0 x 1.5 x 2.0 santee and having vent for the shower makes the most sense.
I have no idea what the 3x2 lo-heel would be venting, if the bathroom group is already vented.

http://terrylove.com/images/dwv_b2.jpg

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Terry, you are absolutely correct on running the bathroom group past the shower. I feel stupid I missed that.

Besides venting a toilet, are there any other uses where you could vent with that low heel ?

Thanks, Jeff

"Besides venting a toilet, are there any other uses where you could vent with that low heel ?"

If the 3" line were lower, you could put a santee on the 2" that rises out of the low heel, and run the shower from there.

I doubt that would work for you though if this is coming through a joist space. It would need more vertical for that to space out correctly.

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Originally Posted by Terry

"Besides venting a toilet, are there any other uses where you could vent with that low heel ?"

If the 3" line were lower, you could put a santee on the 2" that rises out of the low heel, and run the shower from there.

I doubt that would work for you though if this is coming through a joist space. It would need more vertical for that to space out correctly.

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Oh, I see what you are saying, stack the santee on top of the low heel. I'd only need a very short piece of pipe to connect the two. I might have enough room to do that since my shower drain outlet is going to be fairly close to the end of the shower pan which means it won't take but maybe a 1/2" or less drop using 1/4"/ft slope before it would have to enter the side of the santee. Then run the vent off the top of the santee. I'll have to look
when I get back over there. It would sure be nice to do that, save me drilling another hole in the top plate as well as more room in the wet wall.

Thanks Terry, Jeff