Does anyone know where to buy Kerdi Board ?
Does anyone know where to buy Kerdi Board ?
This is relatively new product (the preapplied Kerdi, not the membrane itself). The best thing would be to call Schluter directly and ask.
Kerdi-board is now available in most major population areas at tile distributors and dealers. You won't find it at Home Depot or Lowes. :)
I had heard of the stuff (I've used Kerdi before, but the Kerdiboard is new) and did some investigation. It's a structural extruded foam panel with Kerdi applied on both sides (well, it is not exactly like the sheet goods - fleece, reinforced waterproof sheet, foam, with the same on the other side; Kerdi has fleece on both sides of the sheet). One side has a grid on it at 3/8" squares to help you cut it in a straight line. It comes in sheets in various thicknesses from 3/16" up to 2" thick and in various widths and lengths up to 96" long. You can use it in place of CBU on the walls, or as in structural panels for things like a vanity, tub deck, shower seat, etc. that you will be tiling. They also have preformed corner boxes and U-shaped ones for things like pipe covers or chases. There's even a sheet that is designed to bend to make curves. The 2" stuff is sturdy enough to make a tub deck out of and they have various trim pieces for the edges in SS if you want, or other finishes , or you can tile it. Neat stuff. You can cut it with a sharp utility knife (although the 2" stuff might be tougher!). Check out www.schluter.com for more info.
Kerdi Board - Water Testing Results
The results are in.
One out of one North Vancouver Bathroom builders thinks this new kerdi Board is total crap.
Does Kerdi wick water? Does Kerdi Board? Who knows....
I do. It wicks like crazy when it is not banded properly or if you get a nick in the orange layer.
Wicks more than dry wall when place directly in water with no waterproofing on the sides.
It appears the the recommended joint has you using Kerdi-band on the seam. If the goal is to avoid that, then Kerdi-fix should work. My guess is that when cutting, you may debond the edge slightly, and getting a good Kerdi-fix joint may not be as easy as you might think. If using Kerdi-band, I can't see it ever being a problem. Now, adding the Kerdi-fix to an unsupported joint would structurally improve the joint by bonding the two sheet edges together better rather than just gluing on (via the thinset) a band at the top layer where flex at the joint might debond the Kerdi sheet from the foam core. This normally wouldn't be a problem once the tile was up, unless the grout joint happened to align with the board seam.
The cut-sheet with installation and other info for Kerdi-board is linked here: http://www.schluterkerdiboard.com/me...D-Cutsheet.pdf
The only time they call for Kerdi-Fix is when the joining point or edge won't accept thinset to make a seal (such as to a tub edge or say a windowsill). Otherwise, you butt the edges together, then cover with Kerdi-band, as you would for using the membrane. As long as you get at least a 2" overlap of the Kerdi materials, the seam will be waterproof. WHen using the panels on studs, say in a shower wall, you need to waterproof the fasteners - Kerdi-band is the recommended method. You need fasteners into studs at a maximum of 12" intervals and either 1/2" panels on 16-studwalls, or 3/4" on larger (up to 24") studwalls. Pipe penetrations could either be made with their special Kerdi pieces, or Kerdi-fix. The pre-made corners could be used there, or you can make your own, as you used to do before they made the corners.
I have 4 sheets of 3/8" Kerdi Board in the shop for testing and my next project.
What do any of you out there what to see tested? Any specific things?
I will repeat the flooded box tests I have seen on line and build them with Kerdi Board and Kerdi and/or Kerdi Band not just Kerdi Fix.
I purchased the stainless steel profiles for the 1 1/2" Kerdi Board. These design elements I believe will be fun the play with and ease to install.
I'll get all my order spread out and post a picture of the new products.
Well men I have been very busy with my Kerdi Board testing. I have found to my surprise the water wicking through the "Special Reinforcing Material" actually weakens the boards strength and also makes the separation of the Kerdi Like material and Special Reinforcing material easier.
But really water should not be getting into the wall assembly either.
Installed to spec I have found the Kerdi Board to be rock solid. It is a dream to work with and so so light. I have only expeirmented with the 3/8" stock and find 16" joist spacing far to wide. I would suggest 10"-12" spacing and would also consider adding solid blocking or cross strapping to further stiffen this board.
Schulter shows the Kerdi Board being mounted to cement walls and I would advice against this unless you are prepared to Kerdi Band the boards edges before you do. This is not a big step and really does not cost that much or take that much time to do. I would advice you do the same with your larger sheet goods if they are to be used as structural panels.
I have found the board weakens by about 30% when staturated and the Kerdi Board with out the "Special Reinforcing Layer" is only about 10 percent as strong as with it. Do not use Kerdi Fix on these inside corners and think you are good to go. Use Kerdi or Kerdi Band. Take care that you wrap the bottom of the Kerdi Board when installed against a tub deck so the board does not weaken and wick water at this point.
Q: What's the best thing about Kerdi Board?
A: How easy and quite the installs are. My newest "Bad Boy" (By Any Design Staff) asked me this question when we where boarding on Thursday. "John, is it OK if I cut it and it's out a 1/16" of an inch?" Oh My God what a great question! And he cut it free hand with a "Olfa Razor" following the grid lines. I loved this question and off course said it would be OK this once....
Still have some questions and Schulter has not called me back with some advice like they said they would. I will email again and ask about this install against concrete walls. Last week I spoke to the tech at Schulter and he told me to use Non Modified thin set to install against cement walls. I told him about my testing efforts and the boards ability to wick water and he told me he had heard this mentioned (but did not confirm or deny) and that he would have to check with another employee and call me back. That was some time ago.
I have yet to hear back - day 3 and counting....
Kerdi Board testing wrapped up...
I have finished my Kerdi Board testing and after multiple attempts to have Schulter answer some tuff questions I have come to the conclusion that Schulter will not call me back and that the "Kerdi Board" is not the new Great Tile Backer Board I hope it would be - it is so far from that it's comical.
I have two sheets of 3/8" Kerdi board if any of you regulars want to try it out.
I testing the product to insure it's waterproof - it is.
I tested the product to see if it wicks water (stock only not Kerdi'd) - it does in a big way.
I tested the product for deflection - I would recommend installing it over cement board to be safe.
I tested it for ease of cutting - I have never cut anything as easy before - this is great!
I tested it for weight - I can carry at least four sheets and a Bag of Thin Set
I'm done testing - I hate it.
Before you buy any Kerdi Board find out about the wicking issues.
Ask someone to explain to you what the "Special Reinforcing Material" is made of.
Test the board for deflection. Bring in a 2"x4" square representing studs on 16" centers and place a board on top and give it a press - should be fine if you don't slip and bang the wall with your hip in the wrong spot.
I have the product (3/8" mind you) and I don't like it.
I give it about 6-12 months before the cracking grout threads start popping up. I wonder what the reason will be??? "Modified thinset maybe" "Installation error"
Please call Schulter and ask them these questions about Kerdi Board. Please ask others that have used it if they would install it in their Mom's house?
Don't listen to me - I'm not so impressed with Schulter of late.
I'll let the installs down stream speak for themselves.
Protect those ends - they wick water and bring those studs closer together...
I thought I remembered the instruction manual saying 1/2" minimum panels on a bare studwall. The thinner sheets are designed as a skin for existing flat panels. If the seams are covered with Kerdi material or Kerdifix, the fact that the foam absorbs water is immaterial, since none should ever get there. Same idea as their preformed pan or curb...cover it properly with Kerdi, and it's stable and waterproof. I'm surprised they didn't call you back. Maybe they tried, but no one was home at the time.
Installing NuHeat over Kerdi Board and under Ditra - What do you think?
I woke up this morning and opened up my free copy of Mike Holmes' magazine "Holmes - The Magazine to Make It Right". The monthly subscripition my payment I think for the hours I spend on a fireplace article last year.
I knew it was a matter of time before "Kerdi-Board" worked its way into an issue - and today here it is. The Kitchen & Bath Special showcases a nice Kerdi Shower. Kerdi spelled Kurdi for the much of the story.
This article showcases Kerdi Board being installed on the cement slab, then Nu Heat heating wires (which by magic stay down because no fasteners are present), then self levelling and then Kerdi.
Seems like a moisture sandwich to me. What do you guys think?
I called just yesterday to ask about installing heating wires over Ditra because I've seen Mike's crew do this as well. I was told by the Schluter employee that they like it under but it can go over if the manufacturer of the heating wire says it's OK.
So it seems like Schluter says "Yes" if the wire supplier agrees. I tried calling Nu Heat and Schluter again this morning and their tech departments where closed. I'll ring again on Tuesday and look for more answers.
I'm not liking the Kerdi Board under the heating wire and would prefer to see cork. I have research this subject to death and the cork is allowed by a number of heating wire companies. No where in my research did I come across Kerdi Board as being acceptable.
The bathroom construction pictures show many missing items for what we would call a "Build Right" project.
It is a shame when these magazines and TV shows showcase poor building methods or methods that are not officially documented. Following the advice of one show can lead to a failure in the field. Then when you look for answers you sadly find out you built it wrong - when you where trying to build it right....
It's Monday in Vancouver and a long weekend. I thought I would try calling Schluter Head Office USA and ask my questions on this new install I saw featured in Mike Holmes magazine.
Schluter Systems L.P.
194 Pleasant Ridge Road
Plattsburgh, NY 12901-5841
I called and was transferred to Paul in Customer Service/Tech Support. I asked Paul about the installation and described it to him. Paul told me that Schluter does not have a rating for the use of Kerdi Board for floors. Paul added that they won't anytime soon.
Before I called Schluter I gave Nu Heat another call and as luck would have it got a hold of Ava working the long weekend shift. Ava was not aware of any private testing with Kerdi Board but suggested I call back tomorrow and speak with Pat Mann. Pat I'm told is the guy with all the answers. Ava suggested I ask Schluter for a fire rating with the Kerdi Board. Ava told me that if Kerdi Board is rated for 88 degrees Farneheit (82 F for laminates) we would be OK.
I asked Paul at Schluter about the fire rating of Kerdi Board and was told that it is not yet rated - and no ratings are available at this time.
Looks like to me that this "Showcase" of building bathrooms better is a "Concept" and one yet backed by Schluter International.
The R&D team at NuHeat tests their product with all of the industries top products and Ava told me that 1/4" cork is one of the best products to use with their heating system.
1/4" cork. That's what is installed in my basement.
I'll call Pat Mann of Nu Heat tomorrow and get some more insight. Perhaps Nu Heat can do the testing for Schluter on the Kerdi Board and speed things up.
For those of you who are still interested in a good source for Kerdi Board, e-comfortusa.com has just begun offering it for sale online. As full disclosure, I do work there. You can check it out here: http://www.e-comfortusa.com/index.ph...&filter_id=630