So do you think I got a somehow bad Toto, or that my use isn't normal? If I got a bad Toto, should I try another of the same model and hope for the best, or get something else? If my usage isn't "normal," then why is it a problem on the Toto but not so much on cheap American Standards?
Originally Posted by wjcandee
I'm really unhappy with this toilet, but trying to keep some faith in Toto. I need another replacement toilet (I'd like to have already ordered it, as my bathroom is basically ready for it now), but am a bit afraid to take a chance with more of the same from this model. Any suggestions? I don't really want to go back to the old Cadets I've used in the past, but so far I'd say that my experience with Toto has been far inferior, and given all the positive reviews from experts, that makes me think that maybe there's just something wrong with this particular toilet?
Everyones anatomy and diet are somewhat unique, and as a result, their outputs will vary. The amount of fiber you consume can have a huge impact on how 'sticky' and subject to streaking your deposits are as can how hydrated you are. So, bottom line, your results may vary, but the majority of people don't have an issue.
I've not studied whether Toto's seat positions a person at a different location than others...that's eminently possible, but I don't know. I do know that it tends to be fairly deeply dished, and most people will only find one comfortable position, whereas a flatter one, a person could shift moderately forward or backward, and that could make a difference. That's one aspect of the Toto seats some people don't like...I find mine comfortable. Another reason there are choices in life - one thing rarely works for everyone for one reason or another.
I wish i knew what to tell you. It's just frankly so odd to hear someone say they are really unhappy with their Toto, and to compare an AS or for-goodness-sake a Glacier Bay favorably to it. Maybe Jim's right -- not to say you guys aren't "normal", of course. You do have Sanagloss on your toilet which makes this even stranger. I would give Toto customer service a call and see what they say. They are amazingly-nice, and in my experience really want you to like your toilet. I would be curious what they have to say, and if you don't get a good answer from the first person, ask them if they or you could speak to one of the engineers about it. They will usually let you do that or will do it themselves. 1-888-295-8134. These are nice people in Georgia, USA, not some foreign call-center. They certainly deserve an opportunity to try to make it right before you go buy a different brand.
Don't be shy, and let us know how it turns out.
Ok, will give them a call for sure.
I did a TON of research before buying this toilet, which makes it sting even more. I thought I'd gotten exactly what I wanted - the double cyclone flush with the sanagloss, for the reason of cleaning the bowl better, after having bad experiences with the crappy Glacier Bay that was there before. After all that research, and all the clout that Toto holds, and getting a toilet that seemed optimal for this purpose, I fully expected good results. The Toto is better than the GB was, but not by a ton. And as far as bowl wash, its been far worse than most box store 1.6gpf models I've used.
I want to conserve water and all that, but thinking that maybe I need to use a 1.6, like the Drake I or something. Or maybe there was just a problem with the finish on my particular bowl or something...
I guess I'll see what Toto says and report back. The reviews on this model are great pretty much everywhere I look. I was considering the Aquia, but have seen a lot of negative reviews along these lines, so not going to try that, I don't think.
Thanks guys, for the input. Will get back to you once I get a chance to talk to Toto.
Like you, I also have trouble with the Drake II but not a cheaper model, the Mansfield Cascade I mentioned earlier.
So, I call shenanigans on the diet claim, since my Mansfield, and the cheap Eljer I used the last two years, haven't have a significant problems with burnout marks.
But, in my case, the marks are basically always on the back of the toilet. So the genuine Toto seat may help in my situation. But again, that's just a guess.
If I had to do it over again I would probably get the regular Drake 1.6 or a different brand instead of the Drake II.
EDIT - I just ordered the SS114 Toto seat, so we'll see if that helps.
Stephen, please let me know how your experience goes with the Toto seat. I'm happy with my Kohler seat, and particularly the quick disconnect feature for cleaning, but I'm not married to it. It wasn't that much cheaper than the Toto seat, so I'd be willing to give it a whirl if you seem to see an improvement, though for me the skidmarks are not usually at the back, so I might have different results.
I called Toto on Friday while driving, haven't had time to do so while at home during their hours. They were, as mentioned, very nice. Anyway, the tech said that I needed to make sure the water level was about 1/2" below the top of the overflow tube. He said sometimes they ship with the fill valve improperly adjusted, and this can cause some of these problems. An inch of water is a substantial difference on these eco models... He also said to put paper around the perimeter of the bowl and see if it washes it all away.
I got home later that day, adjusted the water level up (it was probably just over an inch below the top of overflow, so not too far off). I put it about 1/4-3/8" from the top, feel like I need every drop I can get. I then performed the paper test (didn't do one before adjustment, so can't report on a change), and it cleared the paper, though only cleared the last of it right at the very end of the flush.
As it happened, I had a nasty #2 brewing when I got home, so right after adjusting, I gave a strong performance that I'd expect to leave some racing stripes on pretty much any toilet. It did, but they were definitely less than before. I've given it a couple more (much more normal) rounds since then, once with just a little sticking, once with none. I asked my roommate after he'd used it once, he said he still got sticking, though it did seem a little better. I haven't asked him again yet since then.
So, marked improvement from the slight water level adjustment. I'll call Toto again in the next couple days and have the walk me through any further things while I'm actually standing at the toilet and see what they say. And I'll keep doing some real world testing and see what kind of results I get. For those of you who are having the same problems, check your water level. Its super easy to adjust, just need a straight screwdriver. It will at least help, if not solve the problem, if your level is currently low.
I'll post again once I talk to Toto again. Stephen, def post here once you see how the Toto seat goes.
I saw your post about the seat wobble, wondering if you've noticed any improvement with the seat positioning as far as the racing stripes issue?
Originally Posted by stephenk
I only used it a few times.. The first time I used it I had to scrub the bowl. It was the same issue, with marks on the back of the bowl. The second time required no scrubbing, but the old seat didn't require scrubbing every use, either.
Originally Posted by mtcummins
Some measurements show it to be almost the same as the cheap Bemis seat I had before, as far as where you're positioned. The way the Toto seat is deeply dished may help position you a little farther forward, but that's just a guess.
Well, maybe you do just need a little more water in the flush to dispose of your particular poo. If you are not as concerned about water-saving, then there are things you can do to give yourself a little more water, although it will make this no longer a green toilet. One thing is you can hold down the handle when you have a nasty time on the thing, and see if that extra-long flush doesn't do the trick. If that does do the trick, then you can use the Korky adjustable 3" flapper to increase or decrease the amount of water used on every flush. But if holding down the handle doesn't do it, then changing the flapper won't, either.
Originally Posted by mtcummins
Yeah, I'll have to try that for testing purposes. For now, I'm just giving the toilet its chance to prove itself to me as is, with the water level just a tad above manufacturer's spec. Its been mixed, def fewer skid marks, many flushes go down nicely now, some don't, but leave less behind than before. Good to know about the adjustable korky... i think I had heard about that before, but didn't remember. Thanks.
I think the cheaper AS toilets and stuff that I've had less trouble with were all 1.6gpf models, so maybe that is the primary difference in my case, simple volume of water. I can't say I've found a 1.28 that I've been thrilled with yet, though I don't think I've tried all that many either.
I still need to call Toto again, and see if they have any further input. Will let you know if anything new develops, but I'm definitely leaning more towards the 1.6gpf models at this point.
We been selling and installing a bunck of these lately. TOTO CST454CEFG
I get really good reviews from customers.
The photo was taken before it was caulked.
Good AM Terry,
Thank you so much for your website, passion for quality toilet products and especially for introducing us to the world of Toto. Recently our family has been plagued with mounting frustration as a result of 3 aging porcelain commodes. A plunger posted at each station stands ready for duty and is never dry. We have fought the good fight! But now, it is time to retire the plungers like so many others and join the ranks of Toto relief. Although weary from hours of Toto study and reading blogs, I believe that we have come to agree on one Toto miracle … The Drake II Close Coupled Toilet CST454CEFG. If we were some 2800 miles closer we would be filling out a work order now to install 3 of these ‘bad boys’.
However, a thought has clouded my star gaze of Utopia. One of my rough-ins measures @ 11.25” from the finished wall. Another @ 11.63” and the last @ 12.00”. The Toto specification sheet for the CST454CEFG shows a ¾” gap between the wall and the tank installed on a 12” rough-in. With the 11.25” rough-in scenario if my math is correct the tank would be pushed against the wall with no clearance. Upon reading Jamie’s link ‘Installing a New Toilet’ a glimpse of that Utopia star gaze reappeared. He makes reference to the Toto CST744S and the Toto CST454CEFG and I quote ‘Even though it’s considered to have a 12” rough-in, it will install with as little as 11” from the finished wall to the center of the flange.’ Please tell me this is true and explain to me how this can be done. There will be dancing and singing in the streets. I have downloaded his attachment of the footprint for the C744S. Is that also the same footprint for the CST454CEFG?
My family and I thank you in advance. We look forward to your reply and to joining all those already before us in Toto relief.
The horn of the C454 bowl has 3/8" of play with a 3" drain.
We sometimes cheat the bolts farther away from the wall to pick up that distance.
The 744 bowl will set at 10-7/8"
The 454 bowl needs more than that.
On two of your bathrooms, the Drake II (CST454CEFG) will fit fine, as it should fit on just about 11.25". http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/Pro...ST454CEF_G.pdf It may fit the third as well, but it might be tight. Of course, as Terry points out, you can "cheat" it forward a little on the flange and therefore it should fit. If you are using a smart plumber (and some are and some aren't), he should be able to get all 3 in. If you're doing it yourself, do the 11.25 one first with the Drake II and see if you can get it in. If you can't, then use it on one of your other two spots.
The Original Drake (CST744E or CST744S) will have no problem going in on the 11.25" rough-in. It has fewer bells and whistles standard (i.e. no Sanagloss, no chair height, and if you want them you can only get one or the other at extra cost). I have two of them at home, both on non-standard flange lengths from the wall. http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/Pro...5_CST744EG.pdf If you go with the Original Drake, it comes with the option of a new tank on the 1.28 version, which is a different style; more traditional. That would be CST744EN. Take a look at it and see how you like it. http://www.totousa.com/Portals/0/Pro...8_CST744EN.pdf
The Drake II is a great value because of all the features it has. But the Original Drake is a great workhorse toilet. Come back with any questions you have.
CST454CEFG with SS114 softclose seat.
Sanagloss, double cyclone rinse, 1.28 GPF
This one set on a nice tile floor.