table saw question
I'm hoping that this post doesn't go awry of the rules. If it does, I apologize in advance.
I'm looking to purchase a table saw and I am trying to choose between the Bosch 4000-09 and the 4100-09. the only difference I can figure out is that the new one has a slightly more powerful motor, and a new blade guard system. Has anyone used the new one? I found the older model at a large discount so it will run be about half the price of the newer model. Unless the new "safety" features are vastly superior I can't imagine spending the money on the newer model. Anyone have advice on this?
Secondly, in the past I have used a radial arm saw and circular saws to do all my cuts. I would like a good book on table saw safety and technique. Can anyone suggest one?
My neighbor has the 4000-09 and I've got a 4100-09. At the time, I was able to buy the 4100 on the Web at the same price as the 4000 (which was on sale locally). If the 4000 were available for 1/2 the price of the 4100, it'd be a no-brainer. The improved safety features on mine are safely stored away in their holders; didn't know about the more powerful motor. The main reason I bought it was for the stand.
As for the book, there's a ton of them out there. Taunton Press would be a good place to start.
If you've used circular saws and radial arm saws in the past, I think you'll find a table saw doesn't replace either one well. I use it mostly for ripping small (say, less than 4' length) stock. For long rips, I still use a circular saw and a straightedge guide. For that reason alone, I wouldn't spend a lot of money on a table saw. (However, if you're getting into the cabinetmaking game, then a high-quality table saw (not the Bosch 4x00) is indispensable.) For crosscuts, a compound miter saw. If I were going to buy any new saws, I'd look seriously at the Bosch 5412L Dual-Bevel 12" Slide Miter saw -- Oh! the temptation!.
I don't plan on getting into cabinetmaking. I will likely build some radiator covers, but this saw should be fine for that. I was considering a stationary TS, but I realized that I don't have the space. As a saw that stows away goes, I think this is about as good as they get. As for a miter saw, I was planning on getting the Hitachi C12LSH 12" Sliding Dual Compound Miter Saw. I found it for a good deal ($500).
That's a good reply from Mikey. I don't have either, so I would comment that in general, I have often snapped up a closeout deal on a model which is being discontinued for a newer one.
I subscribe to the Consumer Product Safety Commision recall list. I get emails every day about product recalls. As far as I know, there have been NO issues with these saws. For casual work, the motor in the older model is probably more than adequate for you. I hate to admit or encourage this, but for myself, and I think many, the blade guards, etc, on table saws are usually the first thing to go. They are cumbersome and interfere with a lot of work, and are too much trouble to take on and off!
A table saw may be potentially the most dangerous tool in your shop. So treat it with respect when you operate it.
In the shop the table saw is the most dangerous tool. On the job, the most dangerous ones are circular saws with the guard locked back with a nail.
Agree for sure with that. I mentioned taking off my table saw guard, but I would NEVER mess with the blade guard on circular saw. I suspect the two most common, or at least most serious, jobsite injuries treated by emergency rooms involve circular saws and nail guns.
Thanks for the advice. I picked up the 4000. I am a little disappointed that the safety features on these things (in general) are designed in such a way that no one uses them. On the other hand, if they don't get used I can't rationalize spending an extra $300 for the new saw. On an aside, I was wrong about the motor. The 4000 also has the 4.4 HP.
Next step is to find a book so that I can learn to use the thing safely.
I have a weird-shaped right thumb to attest to that :(.
Originally Posted by hj
I have a left index finger which points just a little east of straight ahead! And that was done with a hand saw! Just think what I could do with a power saw!
Every time I use a table saw or chop saw a little voice in the back of my head says, "One mistake and this whole way of life isn't worth it....."
When I use a nail gun I just really hope one of those bad boys isn't coming back in my direction.
Personally, I wouldn't invest in a compound sliding miter saw. They take up too much space. There's always a way to do wide cross cuts on a t-saw or circ saw.
You're right to be concerned abt tsaw safety. Get a good book on the subj. A couple starter points:
1) Join sawmillcreek.com
2) Don't remove the blade guard like 75% woodworkers do. If the stock guard sucks, buy a better one. The antikickback pawls, splitter, and cover all go miles to increasing the safety of the saw.
3) Invest in a featherboard, and a good pushblock.
4) A lot of tsaw owners also use boardbuddies or the GRRipper block to assist in rip cuts. I love what my GRRipper can do, but it requires the blade cover to be removed, which I hate.
5) Don't chinse out on your blades. Expect to pay between $50 and $100. Else you'll be spending any $$ saved on lots of sandpaper and router bits to clean up your burned, chafed cuts.
6) Make a bunch of zero clearance inserts. They'll produce cleaner cuts on the bottom side of yr stock.
7) Make some good infeed and outfeed supports. They don't have to be expensive; pieces of plywood clamped to a sawhorse will do the trick cheaply.
Any good tablesaw book will have a bunch of jigs you can and should build like a cross cutting sled, jointing sled, that'll also make accurate, safe cuts possible.
Yeah, but how about a compound miter for an outside corner on a 16' length of crown molding?
Originally Posted by prashster
You're right. That's the ONLY operation you'd prefer a CMS for.
I'd sooner get a 12" CMS than a slider - just bkz of size. The 12" will let you cut higher crown on angle.
I use my Bosch SCMS a lot.
True - most cross cuts can be made on the table saw, but anything long and skinny (10" or less wide) goes to the SCMS just because it's easier and quicker. That includes shelves, moulding/trim, dimension lumber and lots of other stuff. A lot more clearance space is required to horse that kind of stuff around to fit on the table saw in tight spaces.
That said, I had a Bosch 4000 a long time ago. I bought it because I have limited space and thought it would fit easier. After 4 years, I sold it and bought and rebuilt a used delta contractor saw. The larger more stable table surface, good fence, better guard (sharkquard), etc, etc. were huge improvements over the Bosch and well worth a little more space.
If I had more space, I would have done the same. A friend of mine has that rig with the Unifence, and it's great. However, She Who Must be Obeyed has stolen about 150 sq ft from the garage for a laundry room and the world's smallest home theater, so my shop space is severely limited; the Bosch is the best compromise, I think. It replaced a 40-year old Craftsman table saw that took a lot of room, and tried to cut my thumb off - that was the last straw :mad:.
The Bosch SCMS cuts larger crown, I'm told, because of the top-mounted motor. I'm using a DeWalt 12" CMS, and it's fine for my purposes (mounted on a Porter-Cable wheeled collapsing stand), but I sure do covet the Bosch...