Why did I get zapped?

Thanks for the continued advice and constructive criticism.

Yes, I know how a circuit works. No, I don't need help installing this fixture.

Just had a question about the funky wiring scheme. I've not run across four neutrals of dissimilar metals all wire-nutted together to a light fixture before. That's all. Was stupid of me not to check for juice in these neutrals or turn off the main breaker, (since the neutrals were from separate circuits).

Like the dog who was hit by the car and lived to bark another day, I'll not make that mistake again.

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Originally Posted by Lakee911

Jason
PS. By the way, drywall compound (vinyl or otherwise) isn't the best repair method for plaster holes. Many do it, but you're likely to end up with cracks between the two mediums because they expand and contract at different rates. Not that its much of a big deal on the ceiling, but the dry wall compound isn't as durable as the plaster. It's much too soft. Hey, what's your patent number?

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Vinyl spackle is made for drywall, plaster, wood, brick, and stone. It is nothing like "mud". It dries hard and doesn't crack. I love the stuff.

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Originally Posted by Verdeboy

Yes, I know how a circuit works. No, I don't need help installing this fixture.

Just had a question about the funky wiring scheme. I've not run across four neutrals of dissimilar metals all wire-nutted together to a light fixture before. That's all.

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There is a general principle that you should apply.

When you run into a "funky" circuit you must assume that proper circuit principles may have been (were probably) violated. There are a couple of things you should do after you make that discovery.

1. Since it is a "funky" circuit it is probably non-standard and nobody here is going to be able to tell you how it is really connected.

2. Given the Situation #1, your only solution is to trace it out or figure it out, and draw it on paper, until you KNOW that you understand it. You MUST verify your paper diagram by measurements and by verifying the sources of the power and neutral wires. You must understand how it works as installed. If you must disassemble a circuit to check it out, you MUST label all wires so you can put it back together.

If you aren't prepared to do #1 and #2, then you shouldn't mess with the circuit.

If you want to just disconnect the black and white wires of an old light fixture and connect the black and white wires of a new fixture, and leave any old errors in place, then you can do that. However, you must realize that if there is a problem and the customer or the insurance company or the fire marshall bring in a licensed electrician they are going to want to know who last worked on the circuit.

I charged $20/hour in 1989, 19 years ago.


No license, no insurance, no credentials to speak of.


Accountant told me back then, "Son, why are you in business?"


I didn't understand that all the money I was bringing in which wasn't much, in the big picture at the end of the year didn't add up to jack squat when the numbers all came together.

To each their own and you control your own destiny, can't argue that.


My insurance for my plumbing company does not allow me to touch anything electrical in regards to anything non-plumbing related.

I can hook up/wire a pump but only connect a dishwasher, disposal or water heater but I cannot touch the light switch in a bathroom, a ceiling fan in a kitchen. Just because there is plumbing in that room doesn't mean I can do all connections, just the ones that pertain to function and necessity involving key components related to plumbing.

That's why there are licensed electricians, not plumbers taking on the electricians job.

People always want the work cheaper when you multi-task in the trades.

That same clientell that will expect you to even work less when there is considerable work involved.

And if you have a callback?


There was no profit margin there to begin with....no harm no foul I suppose. :confused:

I abandoned this customer base completely because they expect me not to make a living off them, just help them out for a few 20's and you shouldn't be making that much how dare you cost me money.


I'm paying $3.55/gallon for diesel fuel right now, burn at least $120 of fuel a week.

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There is a general principle that you should apply.

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One wire, hook it up.

Two wires, look it up

Three wires, F##k it up

Four wires, roll it up




For me, $20 bucks was the going rate for side jobs in 1974. Wages were $6.

I have a bit of a different perspective on things. I prefer communalism (not communism) over capitalism.

I've lived in little "intentional communities" for years, where all my needs were met and little or no money ever changed hands.

Those places have now gone by the wayside, so I am stuck having to make and spend yukky money.

I live very simply now, so I don't need or want the big bucks.

Hey, Rugged. I found the perfect avatar for you:

In my humble opinion, I think that all people would be happier if they lived simpler. People make things harder than they need to be, worry when they don't have to or shouldn't. People work all their lives and then retire and are lost. Well, I think I know why. And, if more people thought about it, they would, too. Their has to be more to living than what I refer to as W & W. Work and Worry. I hear people stating they are worried about this or that and my eyes are wide-open listening in disbelief. I too, live simply. My late husband used to work many many hours a week. We rarely, if ever had a vacation or even, spent enough of time together like I would had liked. I used to worry that he was working too much. He used to worry about " affording our retirement." In short, he lived to the ripe old age of 49. Live simpler, live longer.

Do you two take the same medication as I do? Seriously. For some reason your responses remind me of


that ABC wide world of sports beginning clip where they show the different sports and then comes

agony of defeat when that guy on the skies wipes the **** out knowing he's been shamed for life because they made a point of showing it 4 billion times. :D


Are you two condoning income levels to just $20 an hour? Because if you are, we're all going to the Dr. Phil show and going get to the bottom of this "free world" antics.

It doesn't exist, personal success is in the eyes of the beholder. That doesn't mean you have to make a lot of money, but surely you can see the optimism above poverty level wages.

Money makes the world turn, literally. If it didn't exist there wouldn't be a functioning society. Little house on the prarie died years ago, no sharing labor from home to home unless you call adultery the labor of love. :eek:


Living simple does mean losing the computer/phone/car/tv ahem *flat screen* :D

Vinko!



ROFL! Been using that avatar in another forum for probably 3 weeks. Beat ya to it!

Oh I gotta good one coming here for this one. :evilsmiley:

Could you run all that past me again, the chemo went to my brain. :(:D
I can't remember which smiley face to use here. :o

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Originally Posted by RUGGED

Are you two condoning income levels to just $20 an hour? Because if you are, we're all going to the Dr. Phil show and going get to the bottom of this "free world" antics.

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What makes you think I said to live simply means you have to make less money? I did not say that, but that is what you think.

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Originally Posted by Cookie

What makes you think I said to live simply means you have to make less money? I did not say that, but that is what you think.

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I believe that was the whole point of the argument he was having with Eric, wasn't it?

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Originally Posted by Verdeboy

Vinyl spackle is made for drywall, plaster, wood, brick, and stone. It is nothing like "mud". It dries hard and doesn't crack. I love the stuff.

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On large holes?

Got any repairs you did this way two-three years ago? Go look at them. You might change your mind.

I'm not sure about that, because your climate's pretty different, but I've fixed a lot of spackled patches.

Also, if you want fast-drying, look into setting-type joint compound - a.k.a. durabond - available in 5, 10, 20, 30, 45 & 90 minute formulas.

There's also sandable versions - easysand is the best-known - I don't much like it for big fills, because it's not as tough; but for thin coats, it's okay.

That is not what I said, Frenchie.

Their are many ways to live simpler which has nothing to do with what one earns hourly. To live a simpler life, not having so much to be angry over, argue over. I live a simpler life that has nothing to do with money or what I earn or what I have. It has to do with more important things. Do you understand?

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Originally Posted by Verdeboy

7make and spend yukky money.

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Anyone has any "yukky money" they don't want, I will step up to the plate, make the sacrifice, and take it off their hands.

Personallym I can not stand that vinyl patching "mud." It's just goopy and we don't get along well. Heh I don't know how you couldn't make it not sag on a ceiling.

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Originally Posted by Verdeboy

My customers love me. I could give them your phone number, assuming you lived close by, and tell them you are a fully licensed and insured electrician. I could tell them you would work for the same $20/hr that I make. They would still call me.

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Am I reading this right? Did you say $40,000 a year assuming that you work 40 hours a week.

Now take out all your overhead and what is left? I would guess it would be somewhere around $26,000 a year or $12 an hour.

How much does McDonalds pay and they give benefits?