What can you tell me from this picture? Water Softener

Discussion in 'Water Softener Forum, problems, installation and r' started by Bostonbull, May 26, 2014.

  1. ditttohead

    ditttohead Water systems designer, R&D

    Messages:
    1,837
    Location:
    Ontario California
    Old water tests mean very little. Water changes, the best test method is to have a test done annually and keep the records to see what changes and trends occur. I also recommend having the testing done at different times of the year, again, water supplies change and seasonal differences can be dramatic. A simple example, Norco California, well water system, 53 grains hardness late summer, 120+ grains hardness in the winter. The water testing is the responsibility of the homeowner, and old tests are not usable. I recently got a test and did my analysis, designed the equipment, and as I was about to send off my quote, I noticed the date on the water test was from 1988!!! Now I know better, I always check the date before analyzing it, I just skipped that this time.

    Your valves are Clack, an excellent valve, one of the best in the world.
  2. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    IMO they are probably lying and simply want to charge you for testing. I say that because they had the data to give the original owner. Plus, had there been a problem with a law suit they would want to justify the equipment they sold and installed by producing the then current water test results, or have to admit they didn't test the water, which doesn't go over very well in court. Did they say you could take water samples (pre/post) in to them or that they would have to come out to the house to get/test water samples? How much do they say it would cost you?

    As a local dealer with 99% of all my sales on residential or small commercial well water, I always did water tests and kept the data of prospect notes and then customer file in a file cabinet. I think that is how all dealers should operate. I also kept the same note type record on all contacts (phone/email etc.) when I was an internet dealer, and that included anyone that didn't buy from me. Some of them would come back a few days/weeks or even years later and it was much easier to go over previous data to update it than to start all over.

    As to your present situation, you need current pre and post equipment water tests to determine what equipment you need and to see how it is working. Problem is that without original data, current data may not show a need for some of the present equipment. What to do then is a problem If you don't have old data showing an original need, so do you guess the water quality changed (for the better), the equipment was misapplied or sold although it wasn't needed or it was needed and it may be again if the water quality changes, or do you remove the equipment and hope?

    Now dealers that are in the business to make big bucks, they tend to sell stuff that isn't needed rather than do the best job for the customer, as if that customer was say their elderly grandmother... and then don't keep records while some (here) say there is no reason to save old water test records....

    The well pump... some times there is data on the underside of the well casing cap. Or on the pressure tank or on a pump control box or inside it if you have one. Otherwise you do a gpm flow test and make an educated guess or you pull the pump and look at the identification label etc.. The CSV folks can help with that, so call them or post in the well and pump forum here.
  3. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Location:
    IL
    I expect things are a lot more dynamic for wells in dry California or other dry places-- places where there is little irrigation by wells. I also expect that you don't pay $150 and wait over a month for a result of a good test as I would have to do. Maybe I chose the wrong testing company.
  4. Bostonbull

    Bostonbull New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    NH
    Data posted above was from 2 weeks ago POST equipment.


    I will hit them up again Monday and see if I can get those old results. Boggles my mind they don't have those results, they cant be that big of a company and have that poor of record keeping.....I hope!
  5. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    You didn't answer my questions...

    The only thing I don't see in the test results is tannins and the others that would be reduced/removed by anion resins are all there and within limits or non detected. So, when you speak to them ask what anion resin is in the 'filter', and what it is used for or what they use it for, or what they would use it for. Otherwise your water looks very good.
  6. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Location:
    IL
    Maybe for $50 they would search harder.

    Dittohead has recommended http://www.ntllabs.com/index.html AKA http://www.watercheck.com/ a few times. They suggest you phone to discuss.

    I think you want to test for values of pH, iron, manganese as well as hardness at least.

    "Watercheck 1 & 2" for $102 may be the appropriate test. It includes sulfate value too.
    http://www.watercheck.com/pdf/Waterc...ple_Report.pdf is a sample report. I find the "Min. Detection Level" for Hardness to be be ridiculously insensitive. I think none of the common mail-sample tests will test for hydrogen sulfide, but I may be wrong.

    I used e-watertest.com The test included a lot more stuff that all came back nd=not detected. I felt the 39 days total to order kit, get kit in mail, fill and mail next day(Friday), arrive there Monday, and get email result "20 business days" later was long. I have no clue as to the turnaround times for the other lab. If I were in an area with a more organic contaminates, their mass spectrometer methods might be more advantageous.
  7. Bostonbull

    Bostonbull New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    NH
    Have some pics of the chemicals and equipment from the seller (still not closed yet).

    Are there any more 'natural' salts/chemicals we can use?

    20140601_195253_Android.jpg 20140601_195355_Android.jpg 20140601_195602_Android.jpg
  8. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    Res care is a resin cleaner and the Pot(tassium) Perm(anganate) is used to regenerate certain iron filter minerals like greensand.
  9. Bostonbull

    Bostonbull New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    NH
    Thanks Gary! Are these good brands? Or should I be looking at others?
  10. Bostonbull

    Bostonbull New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    NH
    Had a well company come out. They will replace the tank with a "120 model" pressure tank for $850.

    They said the tank is leaving and needs to be replaced. It was installed in 1984. We turned off the power, ran a faucet until it was empty and it still tested 34psi in the tank. He seemed shocked.

    Well pump is 275' down, and 5 years old.


    I need more water pressure in my house, how can I get more? Showers dribble out, and if someone cracks a faucet, it basically stops.


    In terms of the RO system, he said usually they have 3 tanks? It has 2 legs, one to the kitchen sink were the drinking water only faucet is, and one to the half bath on 1st floor. Am I missing a tank? Where do I get a new cartridge? Home Depot?
  11. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,175
    Location:
    Maine
    A lot of times the pressure is a function of a poorly designed water distribution system but, have you checked the strainers in the faucets?
  12. Bostonbull

    Bostonbull New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    NH
    The strainers are all good, if any two water outlets are running at the same time.... Pressure turns to a dribble house wide. It could be a shower on 2nd floor and a faucet on 1st. Or someone Flushing the toilet. Anytime anything asks for water when water is already running we get huge drops.



    What is that small brine tank on the right side of the picture marked with a skull and cross bones? What goes in it?
  13. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Location:
    IL
    1. I presume you mean leaking. Did you see water leaking? What symptom causes you/them to think the pressure tank needs replacing?

    2. There is probably a pressure gauge at the pressure tank. What does that gauge say when the water is dribbling?

    3. There are different RO systems. Can you read the markings on the filters?
  14. Tom Sawyer

    Tom Sawyer In the Trades

    Messages:
    3,175
    Location:
    Maine
    So many things can cause your pressure problem that without on site investigation it's all conjecture.
  15. LLigetfa

    LLigetfa DIYer, not in the trades

    Messages:
    3,989
    Location:
    NW Ontario, Canada
  16. Bostonbull

    Bostonbull New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    NH
    Sorry, yes some cross over.

    Sticking to the water softening end of this topic....what does the small tank all the way to the right do? Has skull and cross bones sticker on it. What goes in there?
  17. Reach4

    Reach4 Active Member

    Messages:
    2,257
    Location:
    IL
  18. Gary Slusser

    Gary Slusser That's all folks!

    The small black tank on the right, next to the while bottles, is most likely for potassium permanganate, a serious poison used to regenerate manganese greensand etc. iron or H2S filters.
  19. Bostonbull

    Bostonbull New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    NH
    The last home owner mentioned pot perm. Can I add this myself? Is there a certain brand or % I should buy? How high should I fill the tank?


    I am using blue bags of salt in the other 2 large brine tanks.... Is that what you folks here would recommend as well?
  20. Bostonbull

    Bostonbull New Member

    Messages:
    23
    Location:
    NH
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