Ugh - Contractor tells me he is unable to install my expensive Hansgrohe Citterio tub spout

[TheLex]

He goes to put on the tub spout and tells me it won't fit because it's "not standard". What

do you mean not standard? He tells me that "standard" tub spouts like Delta have a set screw that locks the spout and its rubber grommet against the copper pipe. Hansgrohe it appears, uses a threaded adapter. It comes with a 3/4" NPT outside thread and I would assume from the drawing the inside is also threaded but at 1/2" NPT. The scale drawing states two adapters are included.

Nonetheless, the straight pipe my contractor put in does not have any kind of threaded adapter on it. And the tile is already on the wall. It looks like he would have to remove the tile and sweat on the proper part.

Is there another solution? The contractor is getting ready to tell me it's my fault for not ordering a "standard" plumbing fixture. Mind you, I had told him at the start that we're using all Hansgrohe. I also told this to his plumber sub when he was actually doing the work, and the guy replied that he has worked with Hansgrohe before. The general complains that the part was "not on site". Well, everyone has a cell phone these days and you can look the dammed part up on the internet! I'm so pissed right now. This guy has been nickel and dimming me with change orders.

What are my options right now? Should I just stand my ground and get him to make it right somehow? Is there some kind of special adapter that we can use without having to pull the tile off the wall?

 

[Jadnashua]

A threaded female adapter can be soldered onto the pipe.

FWIW, there are two generic types of tub spouts: slip on, that use a set screw to hold them in place; and screw-on. Delta happens to make both, the slip on ones tend to be cheaper quality, but that's not a 100% given. Most of those screw-on are female, yours is a male thread. What will take some skill is to get the adapter at the right depth so that the spout will be tight while also making the back of it flush with the wall.

The hassle is, depending on the type of threaded adapter you buy to solder on, you may need access further back into the pipe and, there's the risk of burning things behind, since you cannot see there. Is there any way to gain access to the back side of this? Maybe cut a hole on the other side to expose things?

As to change orders...the general contractor made an assumption - IF you told him the model beforehand, I don't feel you should have to pay for it, but I'm not a pro, and don't know the protocol on this.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Reach4]

I think that the 3/4 adapter is screwed into the 1/2 inch (14 TPI) thread. If so, "Prepare the spout to receive the 1/2 inch nipple" means to remove the adapter. If not, deal with it.

Not a pro, but this is what I think it would take:

He has what looks like a galvanized 1/2 inch nipple in there temporarily. Let's presume that for now.

He/you mark(s) where the temporary nipple comes through the wall (onto the nipple). Remove the nipple.
Prepare the spout to receive the 1/2 inch nipple. Insert a nipple, and measure where the nipple comes with respect to the wall surface. Calculate the length of the needed nipple and mark the nipple. Presuming that you need an odd size nipple, get a brass nipple that is the next available size longer. Cut that nipple to size. Cut a thread on the cut end. Screw it all together with good teflon tape.

If the nipple turns out to be 1/8 inch too long after you have tightened as much as you dare, remove the nipple, grind a tad off of either tip, and use the thread die again. Make sure when grinding that you taper the end with your grind to make it easy to get the die restarted. If the nipple turns out to be too short, get a new brass nipple and cut it longer than you did the first. Removing the nipple could take a big vicegrip, or it might need an internal pipe wrench. Better as you tighten, estimate how much you have to go to close the gap. 14 TPI means that each full turn is 1/14 of an inch. So if another 1/7 of an inch won't do it and you don't think you will be able to make 2 more turns, shorten the nipple before torquing too much.

I am sure this is easier with practice, but you could do it by being extra careful and slow. A pro might take 10 minutes? So if you can do it in 4 hours, that would be OK.

If you plan to take this to small claims court later, then you will want to pay somebody else to do the work. Point out that this was not a change from the contract, and that you had to minimize the damage by having somebody who could do that part of the contracted work. The small claims judge is unlikely to compensate you for your time, but would for rental of the die and the nipple (if materials were not extra on your contract).

 

[hj]

quote; He has what looks like a galvanized 1/2 inch nipple in there temporarily. Let's presume that for now.

You CANNOT "presume" that because he has a piece of 1/2" copper sticking out of the wall, so NONE of your "advice" applies to this problem. Unfortunately, a 1/2 male adapter, or a 1/2" "threaded sweat bushing" or a 3/4" female adapter would have to installed "inside" the wall in order for that spout to be usable. IF he had used a "drop ear elbow" with a 1/2" pipe stub out he could have adapted to ANY spout you supplied, but he did not and the only "easy" solution is to remove that tile with the hole in and install an adapter. There is no such thing as a "standard" tub spout, you have to know HOW the one you are going to work with attaches before you can provide the proper stub connection.

 

[JohnfrWhipple]

LOL

Sorry. You picked an expensive fixture. Go replace it for a Moen! Hahahah

The good news is you might save some money!

Seriously this is what you where told? OMG

The tile installer did a nice job tiling around the fixture. I like the balance around the trim plate for the thermostatic control valve. Looks great.

 

[Reach4]

quote; He has what looks like a galvanized 1/2 inch nipple in there temporarily. Let's presume that for now."

You CANNOT "presume" that because he has a piece of 1/2" copper sticking out of the wall, so NONE of your "advice" applies to this problem. Unfortunately, a 1/2 male adapter, or a 1/2" "threaded sweat bushing" or a 3/4" female adapter would have to installed "inside" the wall in order for that spout to be usable.

You are right of course. However the word "presume" does anticipate a different course of action if contradictory facts are learned. Rather than expanding the picture to view better, I just thought the groaty pipe looked like galvanized.

I wonder if the hole could be enlarged slightly, the pipe cut deep into the wall, and a 1/2-in x 1/2-in Copper Threaded Adapter Fitting soldered on. This would be a good match for a gynecologist who also does plumbing.

Not buying that? How about a Sharkbite 1/2 in. Brass Push-to-Connect x Male Pipe Thread Adapter after you have cut the copper pipe deep into the wall. Only one chance to get the distance right.

How to cut the pipe down? Saw close to the wall, and then use a 5/8 twist drill, or maybe some specialized cutter to shorten the pipe. Maybe find a plumber who does ship-in-a-bottle as a hobby.

 

[Onokai]

You only have two choices-if you can cut a hole in back of wall for access that maybe an option(the next room behind the shower valve)
Or take out the tile and redo the piping. Caulk this one up to communication issues (no matter which will not help you now)

Mark

 

[Tom Sawyer]

Three choices. He could put a non-matching delta type tub spout on.

 

[TheLex]

Thanks for the replies. I was told that the problem with the Sharkbite fitting is it won't prevent the tub spout from rotating if one turns it.

There isn't much tile that we can chip away to get access as the flange around the spout is very small, as you can see in the photo of the spout.

What really gets my goat is the contractor sent me a bill for a $5400 change order because of my plumbing fixtures. Now if he's going to charge me that much, my feeling is it's ALL his responsibility to look up the plumbing fixture attachments. He knew that I was using Hansgrohe. His plumber knew. And they charged me a change order. So as far as I'm concerned he could have looked up the way the tub spout fitting goes on.

Now it looks like the only surefire way to fix the issue is to pull the tile off the wall and solder on the correct fitting.

 

[Reach4]

www.justforcopper.com looks interesting, but you might not be able to clean up that pipe if it is as bad as it looks. I know nothing of the product other than what a search engine search shows. Note that there is very little pressure on that line if the spout has no built-in diverter function, but maybe the diverter function is not obvious.

Do you have a written contract? Is there enough money on the line here to involve a lawyer?

 

[Onokai]

$5400 change order-He knew that I was using Hansgrohe.ni
I would either hold back the final payment (until this gets resolved) and suggest working this out on his nickel or suggest splitting the bill if you do not want lawyers involved.
The delta spout is a bad idea as you have a look you are going for and told them about the fixtures ahead of time. If you made this clear then its their issue really.
Mark

 

[TheLex]

The problem is this guy's contract was written in a very general and nebulous manner. Instead of stating exactly what fixtures would be used, he just states "install plumbing fixtures that customer purchases". If he's going to be that general and then on top of that he charges me a big change order, then it's on him to make it right.

I'm not putting on a Delta spout. We have a very specific look we're going after. This is part of a several hundred thousand $$$ whole house remodel. The fact that's he's trying to nickel and dime me for HIS mistake is very upsetting.

 

[WJcandee]

If he wrote the contract in general terms, then he should be prepared to install whatever fixtures you purchase. In court, you would testify that you expressly told him it would be hansgrohe. The hard cold fact is, as HJ points out, there is a way for a plumber to install a drop ear elbow that would accomodate ANY fixture. If he knew you were getting the fixtures, then his handy-hack should have installed the drop ear elbow. There's nothing that's "standard", so there's nothing that's "non-standard".

$5400 change order? He's INSANE. Is he getting $3500 per hour for his work?

He's making you his bitch. Screw this guy. Demand, in writing, that he opens the wall and makes the repair at his expense. When he refuses, give him a written stop work order, and demand that he immediately furnish you with copies of the licenses of all trades working on the project, as well as his contractor's license, bond, and insurance. Then call the City to come and inspect. Then go get the form at small claims court and sue him, and notify his insurance company of your claim.

Then, when you get a new GC, demand up front a more-specific contract, get copies of all the licenses above, get a written assurance that only a licensed, bonded plumber and electrician will be used, etc., etc.

You're a candidate for that Adam Carolla show where he and a real contractor go and kick the asses of the charlatans.

 

[Tom Sawyer]

So have the tile guy pop the bottom tile off. Doesn't seem like that big a deal to me

 

[Terry]

When I do work like that, I ask for a parts list. I then look up those parts on the Internet to see how they install. Anything Grohe or Hansgrohe I check first. There are so many different combinations of spouts they use.
I would tap out the tile, do the fix in the wall, retile and then install the spout.

And next time, the plumber will get the facts straight first.
You can't be a remodel plumber and just assume everybody is getting a slip spout. I've only seen one Grohe slip spout, and that was junk.
Most of their stuff is thread on. Either 1/2" or 3/4"

A Sharkbite can never be used for a tub spout. For one thing, it acts as a restricter that pushs water up to the shower head while filling the tub.
And it spins. If you need to remove a tub spout for any reason, you can't. Not with a Sharkbite.

 

[hj]

Here, you would call the Registrar of Contractors and have THEM come out and look at it. Then they would tell HIM to do whatever is necessary, OR they will call someone to do it, and deduct the amount from his bond and suspend his license until he restored the funds to the bonding, period, end of discussion. I am not sure if CA does the same thing, but many states DO have that program.

 

[Onokai]

This whole thing is going to get stinky-let us know how it turns out
Mark

 

[Cacher_Chick]

I would not screw with the tile and risk damaging whatever they used to waterproof the shower walls.
There is a wall there, and the valve can be made accessible from the backside.

 

[Onokai]

The wall on the backside in my view may be the easiest solution for the change. What you have not told us is that an option ?maybe its and exterior second story wall which would rule this option out.?
What's up with the wall behind this valve?
Mark

 

[TheLex]

Mark, the other side of wall behind the tub spout is a stand up shower. So either we pull the tile off the shower wall or the tub wall.

Not an easy solution. Ugh.