Toilet Flange too High

[Spta97]

I am having a plumber relocate my washing machine so it is in the adjacent room next to my dryer. For the drain he is tying the waste pipe into and existing toilet drain in another adjacent room.

He just discovered that the toilet drain is about 2" high (right under the cement) which will mean that I will have to either raise the toilet or raise the floor (or abandon the job) in order to get the proper pitch for the new location of the washing machine.

Seems like the best solution is to raise the floor in that room but I hate having to step up into it. I have also seen other products which will raise a toilet but not crazy about the look. Building a platform for the toilet seems like the least desirable option.

So my question is what is the best solution? Unfortunately the rest of the drain is in a crawl space and the demo to tie into it further down the line (assuming it even has enough pitch) is not a viable option.

 

[Reach4]

Is there much vertical distance from the top of the closet flange to where the pipe goes horizontal? If so, replacing the closet flange after breaking a little concrete might be a good option. Do you have a photo?

Something like this I think what you don't like the look of: http://www.solutioncomfortseat.com/assistive-ada-toilet-platform.htm and I can see why. A wood shop might be able to build you a custom riser out of Delrin or other material, but that would probably be expensive. Busting a little concrete sounds like the deal.

I wonder if there is a little vertical margin available for a Toto Unifit. I can't see mine to see how much higher it could be and still fit. Still, I imagine that it might be an inch at most.

 

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[WJcandee]

I'm at a loss to understand what you/he are saying. If he is trying to tie into the existing closet bend (which is a hack job and not to code), and he needs slope from the washer standpipe to the closet bend that doesn't exist because of the vertical location of the flange, I don't see what raising the toilet or floor of the toilet room is going to do. I also don't understand why he couldn't/wouldn't just tie into the line downstream of the closet bend at a point at which the slopes intersect, and vent it properly so you don't end up siphoning your toilet bowl when the washer drains. But like I say, maybe I'm not visualizing this properly.

Maybe a diagram would be helpful. You'll need it for the permit that he should be pulling for this job. Oh? No permit? I think that tells you the quality of what's being done. If you are in the NYC/LI area, I can recommend a licensed plumber that will do this right.

 

[Gary Swart]

Aside from all of the code problems, let me just say than breaking out some concrete is not extremely difficult. You can rent a small rotary hammer/drill that will do the job. You do not need a huge jack hammer. There is dust created, but if you put up some plastic curtains around the area, that can be contained. It is also possible to hire a professional concrete cutting company that will do the job cleaner and faster. Obviously, not a cheap as DIY. Do not even think about raising the floor level. That is the height of hack work and you'll regret it everyday.
Finally, I think I would get a different plumber on this job. Make certain he is licensed and not a handyman.

 

[Reach4]

I was not addressing any additions tied into the plumbing in the crawl space. I was only thinking of what I interpreted to be the top of toilet flange being 2 inches higher than the concrete floor. Upon re-reading, maybe he is saying that the horizontal soil pipe is near the surface of the concrete. Not sure.

Spta97 says he has a plumber, but I figured he is involved in trying to figure how to deal with the elevated flange since there is a money/aesthetics/function tradeoff to be made. Breaking into concrete sounds pretty drastic, but it is not as bad as most people expect.

 

[Reach4]

delete

 

[Spta97]

Here are the pics:

This is the new flange which now has an elbow at the bottom to which the drain ties in.

wc - he is a licensed plumber.

edit: this is the drain pipe to which the flange will be connected. I figure I can get 1/2" with the tile and thinset, however that will still leave it an inch or so high.

 

[Spta97]

As far as all the claims of code violations, he said that everything is to code. If it is not he lied to me, but I don't have a way to verify. The job is ongoing now so I am in the middle of it.

With the floor being higher, my old bathroom upstairs used to be that way because of the mud floor. It was not ideal but I have seen it in a bunch of houses. What I am wondering if there is a way to avoid that.

Edit again: The other licensed plumber I had out told me he would do the job the same way. Not sure if the codes are different here.

 

[Reach4]

Have you seen how much adding a closet flange to that would do the height? It looks like that fitting (is that a tee?) is already 2 inches out of the concrete.

I think I know how I would handle it if it were mine, but maybe somebody has better conventional way.

What is the OD of that fitting, and how far does it protrude above the concrete now?

 

[Spta97]

Have you seen how much adding a closet flange to that would do the height? It looks like that fitting (is that a tee?) is already 2 inches out of the concrete.

I think I know how I would handle it if it were mine, but maybe somebody has better conventional way.

What is the OD of that fitting, and how far does it protrude above the concrete now?

My assumption would be that it would add 1/4", however the plumber said he is going to get me a recessed height flange (not sure what that is).

It sticks up about 2". OD is 4" I think (standard for a toilet flange). I had a similar issue when I removed the mud floor from the upstairs bathroom. The pipe and flange were copper so I was able to cut it down to size. As this is PVC it needs the height for the flange to sit in. He said he may be able to cut off 1/2" off the height but not any more.

How would you handle it Reach? And thank you for being the only one not yelling at me

 

[Reach4]

I am not a plumber. What I would do for myself would probably be a bit hokey to an observer.

So that is a 3-inch PVC fitting (I still don't know if it is a tee).

One thought would be to install the floor that I want. I would attach a metal repair ring around the fitting with Tapcon screws. Then I would cut the fitting top down to maybe 3/8 inch higher than the new floor. This only gives about 1/4 inch around the hole for the seal to mate with. I am thinking I would use something other than wax to mate with. Your plumber would not do this (he has a reputation to maintain), but I think it would work and make a good seal.

What I would like to find is something like a torque set toilet flange that would tighten well against that fitting. But I don't think I would find such a thing with the right fit. http://www.zurn.com/Pages/ProductDetails.aspx?NodeKey=373764 They are made for cast iron, so the dimensions are different.

I hope somebody has a better plan for you.

 

[WJcandee]

We're not yelling at you. Just trying to figure out what's up.

Anybody who says "Sorry, you have to raise the floor now," is a hack.

What I would like to see is a shot down into that closet bend, then I will let you know whether I think it fails code for the reason that I am thinking of (which it already could do for a variety of other reasons that we can't see because he covered it up without getting it inspected). Of course, you could just tell your contractor that your insurance company requires all jobs like this to be permitted, so you're gonna have the local plumbing inspector come have a look. Hacks always say it's to code, until the inspector points out that it isn't or until they realize that they're gonna have to rip it out when he arrives, and so then discourage you from having it inspected.

PS Your plumber did an excellent cleanup job.

PPS This could be a completely-perfect and totally-legal installation; I just don't have enough info to say. But I certainly become suspicious when something like that is just sprung on you.

 

[Spta97]

We're not yelling at you. Just trying to figure out what's up.

Anybody who says "Sorry, you have to raise the floor now," is a hack.

What I would like to see is a shot down into that closet bend, then I will let you know whether I think it fails code for the reason that I am thinking of (which it already could do for a variety of other reasons that we can't see because he covered it up without getting it inspected). Of course, you could just tell your contractor that your insurance company requires all jobs like this to be permitted, so you're gonna have the local plumbing inspector come have a look. Hacks always say it's to code, until the inspector points out that it isn't or until they realize that they're gonna have to rip it out when he arrives, and so then discourage you from having it inspected.

PS Your plumber did an excellent cleanup job.

PPS This could be a completely-perfect and totally-legal installation; I just don't have enough info to say. But I certainly become suspicious when something like that is just sprung on you.

After the job was done I came the the conclusion that he is a hack; but nothing I could do at that point.

Here is a shot of the fitting



It replaced the bend brass / copper bend with a pvc fitting that has an input on the side for the other waste pipe.

The problem was the original bend was pretty close to the floor so it couldn't be that low for the right pitch. Had it been burried another 4" it would be no issue.

 

[Terry]

Not really understanding what you are doing there, it's hard to comment.

You had a closet bend that was removed, and you replaced it with a fitting to drain a washer to that location, going something like five feet to an adjoining wall. Hopefully there will a vent for the washer and a standpipe.
Well....without more information it's a little tough.

 

[Spta97]

Not really understanding what you are doing there, it's hard to comment.

You had a closet bend that was removed, and you replaced it with a fitting to drain a washer to that location, going something like five feet to an adjoining wall. Hopefully there will a vent for the washer and a standpipe.
Well....without more information it's a little tough.

The washing machine was in the corridor next to the bathroom. The dryer was diagonal from the bathroom and across the corridor from the washing machine in the boiler room.

The intent was to move the washing machine in to the boiler room next to the dryer. To create a drain the plumber replaced the closet bend for the toilet with one that had an inlet on the side and the new waste pipe for the dryer was run into that. Unfortunately an air admittance valve was used as the main vent pipe was where the washing machine used to sit and not accessible from the new location in the boiler room.

The entire intent of the project was to get the washer next to the dryer. I didn't think that was so unreasonable as doing laundry in two separate rooms got annoying after 13 years.