Pseudonym
Member
I'm ok handling acids safely. So this should do it?
Removing crusted scale rings around rim holes?
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Jadnashua
Retired Defense Industry Engineer xxx
Even plain vinegar would work IF you could leave it on long enough. Look at places like Carlsbad caverns - HUGE rooms, all dissolved by weak acids, but over millennia. For what you're dealing with, overnight should work...a stronger acid will just do it quicker, but at a bit more risk to you and your property should you spill or splash any anywhere.
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Plumbs Away
Active Member
This is what I use. I buy it at Lowe's. Works beautifully!
http://www.jasco-help.com/product/jasco-green-muriatic-acid
Pseudonym
Member
I can try the vinegar and pump overnight, I did it for three hours and it DID help, but didn't get it all off.
Pseudonym
Member
I have a Lowe's nearby, I'll check it out. Thanks!
Pseudonym
Member
In case anyone is interested, before going the strong acid route I gave this a try and it worked.
I sprayed a bone-dry under rim area with WD-40 and let sit for just over one day. Then, used my steam cleaner under the rim, the scale seemed to loosen up. Finally, used a piece of wall sand with my fingers and gently rubbed away all of the crust. Nice and shiny under there like the rest of the bowl.
Acid might have been easier, but I'd prefer not to use it if I don't have to, so long as I don't have to spend a lot of time scrubbing and scraping, either!
I sprayed a bone-dry under rim area with WD-40 and let sit for just over one day. Then, used my steam cleaner under the rim, the scale seemed to loosen up. Finally, used a piece of wall sand with my fingers and gently rubbed away all of the crust. Nice and shiny under there like the rest of the bowl.
Acid might have been easier, but I'd prefer not to use it if I don't have to, so long as I don't have to spend a lot of time scrubbing and scraping, either!
Plumbs Away
Active Member
Glad it worked for you. It's just not a job I want to put a lot of time and effort into, and the acid dissolves the gunk in the rim channel that you otherwise can't get to. But, as they say, to each their own.
Pseudonym
Member
I agree with you about the rim channel. But this situation is rings of scale circling each of the rim holes on the visible bowl side. I've had mixed luck keeping acid in contact with the area long enough to dissolve it. I've used the stick-on toilet paper trick with mixed results, paint brushed it on, drenched every few minutes, no avail. It seems to depend a lot on the mineral composition of the scale? Sometimes HCL dissolves it rapidly, other times it does almost nothing. The 15% muriatic I have on hand didn't hardly make a dent. It chipped off with a razor blade, which would have been fine for a few small spots. But along with the rings was also a coating on the entire surface.
Smooky
In the Trades
Here is an idea that might work. He places wet paper towels over the rim holes and holds it all in place with plumbers putty to seal toilet rim holes. Then he pours in something to dissolve the calcium.
http://www.familyhandyman.com/plumbing/toilet-repair/fixing-a-double-flushing-toilet/view-all
http://www.familyhandyman.com/plumbing/toilet-repair/fixing-a-double-flushing-toilet/view-all
Pseudonym
Member
That tip is great for plugged rim holes but that's not the issue I was trying to solve. Thanks for the info though.
Smooky
In the Trades
My thinking was the weak acid solution would soak into the damp paper towel and disolve the scale under the rim and especilly around the rim holes. I must have missunderstood the question or didn't read all of the post.
Pseudonym
Member
Thanks again for the post Smooky, and I'm the one who should apologize, maybe that WOULD work using plumber's putty to maintain the contact better (tape does NOT in my experience, and when I read your post I was thinking TAPE not putty).
I've used the paper towel/toilet paper thing by itself, rewetting frequently, but it didn't do a lot for these really bad crusts. I'm still wondering if it has anything to do with the composition of the minerals?
One thing I tried was to plug up the bottom exit and bottom siphon jet, then fill the bowl to past the rim with vinegar (took lots of vinegar!) and let sit for a day. I also tried the same thing with a 10% citric acid solution. Neither one made ANY visible difference in dissolving the scale. Which is a shame, because of the film of minerals coating the whole under surface of the rim holes, and not just the obvious rings.
I don't have the desire or I would have pulled the toilet out and turned it upside down outside, as many here have suggested, then filled the rim up with acid and continually bathed the rim holes with it. Maybe THAT would have worked. Dunno but the WD-40 got under it somehow and then the wall sand 'popped it off'. A bit more work than the easy way of dissolving but nothing (mild) seemed to touch the stuff.
That wall sand is awesome stuff. No scratching at all that I can see - dark room and shined a flashlight all around and everything shines like it's polished, except for the spots I couldn't get the wall sand onto very well with my fingers. Sprayed a food coloring water mixture all over the bowl and did the flashlight thing again, I see no scratches or anything that 'catches' the stain, except where there is still a mineral film because I couldn't reach it well. That's way up under the rim so I'm not going to worry about it at this point. The toilet works very well, and I'll bleach under and in the rim with my pond pump so the thin scale film isn't stained looking.
Just an aside. I had a product, years ago, some local guy sold it on the QT (probably because it was illegal and dangerous). Some very thin acid, you wore gloves and eye goggles and VERY gently brushed it on with a paintbrush. Then immediately wiped it up with a wet rag you kept in a bucket of water, then rinsed it generously with fresh water. I never found out what it was, it didn't have a smell like any acid I was familiar with, but I never had a mineral film back then, that it wouldn't take off almost instantly. I lived in a different area, then, and again I wonder if mineral composition has anything to do with how certain substances work?
I've used the paper towel/toilet paper thing by itself, rewetting frequently, but it didn't do a lot for these really bad crusts. I'm still wondering if it has anything to do with the composition of the minerals?
One thing I tried was to plug up the bottom exit and bottom siphon jet, then fill the bowl to past the rim with vinegar (took lots of vinegar!) and let sit for a day. I also tried the same thing with a 10% citric acid solution. Neither one made ANY visible difference in dissolving the scale. Which is a shame, because of the film of minerals coating the whole under surface of the rim holes, and not just the obvious rings.
I don't have the desire or I would have pulled the toilet out and turned it upside down outside, as many here have suggested, then filled the rim up with acid and continually bathed the rim holes with it. Maybe THAT would have worked. Dunno but the WD-40 got under it somehow and then the wall sand 'popped it off'. A bit more work than the easy way of dissolving but nothing (mild) seemed to touch the stuff.
That wall sand is awesome stuff. No scratching at all that I can see - dark room and shined a flashlight all around and everything shines like it's polished, except for the spots I couldn't get the wall sand onto very well with my fingers. Sprayed a food coloring water mixture all over the bowl and did the flashlight thing again, I see no scratches or anything that 'catches' the stain, except where there is still a mineral film because I couldn't reach it well. That's way up under the rim so I'm not going to worry about it at this point. The toilet works very well, and I'll bleach under and in the rim with my pond pump so the thin scale film isn't stained looking.
Just an aside. I had a product, years ago, some local guy sold it on the QT (probably because it was illegal and dangerous). Some very thin acid, you wore gloves and eye goggles and VERY gently brushed it on with a paintbrush. Then immediately wiped it up with a wet rag you kept in a bucket of water, then rinsed it generously with fresh water. I never found out what it was, it didn't have a smell like any acid I was familiar with, but I never had a mineral film back then, that it wouldn't take off almost instantly. I lived in a different area, then, and again I wonder if mineral composition has anything to do with how certain substances work?
What is wall sand?
Smooky
In the Trades
Reach4 WallSand is for sanding on dry wall
http://www.zoro.com/norton-sanding-...gclid=CLnWsaWltsoCFQotHwodMmQLmg&gclsrc=aw.ds
http://www.nortonconsumer.com/SheetsDIY-WallSand.aspx
http://www.zoro.com/norton-sanding-...gclid=CLnWsaWltsoCFQotHwodMmQLmg&gclsrc=aw.ds
http://www.nortonconsumer.com/SheetsDIY-WallSand.aspx
Thanks. I had been suspecting it was something mixed into a finish coat for wall texturing.
Pseudonym, what grit do you use?
I know a Pumie Scouring Stick pumice stone can be effective. I wonder which would be kinder to the toilet finish. I have been thinking of taking one to my Sanigloss, despite fears that that finish may be less durable than regular porcelain.
Pseudonym, what grit do you use?
I know a Pumie Scouring Stick pumice stone can be effective. I wonder which would be kinder to the toilet finish. I have been thinking of taking one to my Sanigloss, despite fears that that finish may be less durable than regular porcelain.
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Smooky
In the Trades
Since the pumice is ridged and flat it can be difficult to get into some areas. I have not tried the water proof sanding screens in a toilet but if it does not do damage it would be easier to use than a pumice stone.
My use would be at the water line. I had used the pumice on the old toilet, but am hesitant to do so on the Sanigloss. I think I have exhausted the purely chemical solutions. I have tried some non-metallic razor blades, and it is not nearly as effective as I had hoped. I have a flashlight with a 365 nm UV mode. It is very effective at making the ring visible.
Pseudonym
Member
@Reach4 - I use 3M Drywall sanding sheets, I have both medium and fine grit. I haven't had either of them scratch, ever. BUT... I have never owned a sanigloss or other special finished toilet nor have I ever owned a color other than white.
Pumice has always left scratches for me, even Pumie brand and being very gentle and keeping it wet.
For the waterline ring a piece of wall sand stuck to a sanding pad and my cordless drill or dremel and it's gone in a flash, I buff the entire bowl surface that I can reach with the wall sand and the mineral film is quickly removed except for where I can't reach. My fingers did a pretty good job with a piece of wall sand in the tight spots, but a rotary tool would be much better.
So, I don't know if the wall sand fine grit would scratch your sanigloss? It's inexpensive if you want to try a small piece in an inconspicuous spot.
Pumice has always left scratches for me, even Pumie brand and being very gentle and keeping it wet.
For the waterline ring a piece of wall sand stuck to a sanding pad and my cordless drill or dremel and it's gone in a flash, I buff the entire bowl surface that I can reach with the wall sand and the mineral film is quickly removed except for where I can't reach. My fingers did a pretty good job with a piece of wall sand in the tight spots, but a rotary tool would be much better.
So, I don't know if the wall sand fine grit would scratch your sanigloss? It's inexpensive if you want to try a small piece in an inconspicuous spot.
I bought some Norton WallSand 220 grit. I am not sure I will try it. The package says "The extremely hard, sharp silicon carbide abrasive cuts fast and produces an extra smooth surface." That sounds aggressive vs pumice.
Pseudonym
Member
YMMV of course. I've had bad luck with pumice scratching so I won't try it again. I used both the 180 grit (medium) 3M wall sand as well as the fine 3M (not sure of the grit). Tried several ways to see if I made any scratches but could find none. The wall sand worked especially well on the waterline because I could use it on a drill pad and it was gone in minutes. By hand under the rim was a fair bit more work but still took it all off.
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