Rehabbing a 70's Attic Bathroom

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Steve Muniak

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This project is in a 1928 2 1/2 story duplex located in Cleveland, Ohio. The first and second floors have identical apartments. There is an attic accessible from the central common stairwell. Sometime in the early 1960's the attic was framed out and turned into some type of living space. In the 1970's a full bath was added onto an 11" platform (you would step up 11" into the bathroom).

This project will add a new master suite to the second floor apartment, a new door will be placed at the top of the stairwell in front of the attic and second floor apartment entrance to unify these spaces as a single unit.

The attic has now been completely gutted and we are looking for advice on how to plumb out the new bathroom.

Because we are unable to soffit in the second floor the bathroom will need to be on another step up, targeting max of 8", to accommodate the space needed for plumbing under the floor. All drain lines will be connected to an existing 4" cast iron stack. The previous installation did the same thing.

In the stepped up bathroom there is a toilet, lavatory, shower. A wet bar will be located in the stepped down bedroom along the bathroom wall.

Attached are before pictures, with the plumbing that was used. A plumbing diagram, bathroom layout, and an elevation looking towards the bathroom.

Questions and Process:
- We intend on cutting the cast iron and tieing in 4" PVC using no-hub clamps, the exiting cat from going through the roof will be in place and supported with framing and friction clamps. Isues with this?

- Can I use a Sanitary Tee, Left Side Inlet, 4 In, Hub to attach the toilet and the drain from the lav, wet bar and shower? http://www.sustainablesupply.com/Mueller-5784-Sanitary-Tee-Left-Side-Inlet-4-In-p/w189060.htm

- Any code violations that you see?

- Based on the drawings, any recommendations on the configuration?

- What am we missing?

Thanks! Steve and Joe

Attachments with Descriptions

Original configuration


10418162_10205061041111861_5176855812369958795_n.jpg



Original pluming hookup
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New plumbers box with approx location of the closet bend

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Space ready to be framed and plumbed

1394391_10205060960749852_7663674231399245452_n.jpg


Plumbing Diagram


1688307_10205060970430094_3752975432877145507_n.jpg

Bathroom Layout


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View of room facing bathroom


10527662_10205060970390093_3519470697514822389_n.jpg
 

FullySprinklered

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"wet bar is in the bedroom against the bathroom wall, 8" below the bathroom floor"
What does this mean?
 

Terry

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Steve, It looks to me that someone plumbed a bathroom into the vent stack of the bathroom below using a saddle.
If that is the case, it's not legal.
A new waste line should be used and connected below the lower plumbing.

It's been in use perhaps, but doubtfull that it was ever correct.
You line drawing looks pretty good if that 4" was a waste stack and not venting the downstairs fixtures.
The vent from below can tie back in at 42" above the floor in the attic.
The toilet can be by with a 3" waste line, or you can also use 4"
 
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Jadnashua

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Basic rule of plumbing...once a pipe becomes a vent, it must always be a vent (above the point where it becomes a vent). Once a drain, it must always be a drain. Assuming that pipe is the vent for the stuff below, you cannot legally use it as a drain line UNLESS, as Terry said, you do what is called a revent. That would require tearing into the walls below, and moving those vents so that they run up above into your attic space and reconnect into what's left of the vent line. As said, that's 42" above the floor of the attic room OR 6" above the flood plane of the highest fixture, whichever is higher. That 42" rule comes from the common height of a kitchen counter, and 6" more for safety.
 

Steve Muniak

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Terry and all,

Thanks for the comments, Terry to your post specifically with a question at the end.

Steve, It looks to me that someone plumbed a bathroom into the vent stack of the bathroom below using a saddle.

Correct it was a saddle valve, look pretty strange when we pulled the floor.

10632611_10205066314283687_5170027717062071374_n.jpg



You line drawing looks pretty good if that 4" was a waste stack and not venting the downstairs fixtures.

I believe that this is the vent for the downstairs fixtures.


10698714_10205066313883677_234543785873630710_n.jpg



If this is the case should I go with the original plan, or should I modify to this?

10614239_10205066367445016_6775966762793031886_n.jpg
 

hj

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I would venture that it IS a vent from the downstairs, but NOT a vent for the fixtures connected to that 4" stack, because there would have been no reason to do it that way IF there were no "upstairs" bathroom when it was installed. As a practical matter, it is VERY difficult to go back and install vents for a lower level when you decide to add a bathroom above it.
 

Steve Muniak

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I would venture that it IS a vent from the downstairs, but NOT a vent for the fixtures connected to that 4" stack, because there would have been no reason to do it that way IF there were no "upstairs" bathroom when it was installed. As a practical matter, it is VERY difficult to go back and install vents for a lower level when you decide to add a bathroom above it.

So tie into the 2" vent as a precaution?
 

hj

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NO! If my analysis is correct, you should NOT connect the toilet to that 4" pipe, and if you are getting it inspected, which you should, you CANNOT do it.
 

Steve Muniak

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NO! If my analysis is correct, you should NOT connect the toilet to that 4" pipe, and if you are getting it inspected, which you should, you CANNOT do it.

The light just went off. We need to determine of the floor below used that stack as the vent as we had intedned. If so we need to either:

Open the wall and remove the vent, patch where the vent joined that stack, and rerout the vent

OR

Find a new path for a getting a new stack to the main.


Correct?

I will inspect the line with a camera to determine if there is a vent attached or not.
 

hj

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You may have at least two problems with that line.
1. It is the vent for the upper level fixtures, with the "revents" tied back to at a point 42" above the floor, and,
2. The tub/shower may not have an individual vent but use that stack for its vent, which creates a big problem if you have to vent it separately. Whether this is the case or not depends on how the fixtures are arranged in the room relative to the 4" vent.
 
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