Pumping the well dry, could I have hit bottom?

[hdude]

I retired out to the desert about 5 years ago and inherited the current system and didn't know squat. I have learned a lot on this blog as well as CycleStopValve and am taking remedial step to prevent another burnout:

Situation: Pulled my 2HP 20GPM StaRite pump which was seized. Conditions I didn't react to were for a couple months of seeing on a mesh filter what I now assume were fibers from impeller being ground down (and also blew a start capacitor 5 months ago). Also didn't ever check the 80 Gal Bladder tank which is waterlogged. Franklin Motor seems OK (ohms tested as "new" and generally no shaft slop). Yep - sounds like a over cycle issue (300+ daily).

Motor/Pump/Tank were installed in 2008 but didn't have much use for about 4 years. I am replacing with the same pump (L20P4GH)/motor (Frankin 2HP), removing upper check valve, adding (from CycleStopValves CSV1A and an inducer sleeve & eplacing the tank with a 10 gallon.

Well is 8" steel casing. Static is 65', Well 150' deep and pump @ 140'. House on GeoThermal (5-6gpm) plus regular home usage. Pressure switch @ 50/30. Driller report (1992) shows water hit @72'-75', @85'-95' and @105'-150' with no indication of flow. I have a 2nd 6" well about 100' away 106' deep that I have a 6GPM Windmill on where I also discharge my Geo Water. Drill report (1982) shows a water strata @ 78-82 @ 5GPM and more water from 82' to 104.

Issue: the copy of the driller report I have isn't 100% clear (bad scan) about the actual flow I have in the well. It states that drawdown to 130' @ 3.9GPM.

Question: - Could it be possible I drew the well down below 140'? Could I have issues @ 3.9GPM? Based on my graphing of power usage, the GEO system runs about 50% of the time (3-4 cycles per hour when it is above 100 or below 55 degrees outside and hardly at all during spring/fall). At this time I've been running household & Geo (it has been like summer) from my aunts well next door without issue (other than @ a lower PSI since her well is smaller and only 1 1/2 HP (unknown casing and pump). Neither of us have sucked our wells dry before. I'd figure that even if using GEO 50% of the time, 3.9GPM should allow adequate time to recover and maintain sufficient flow.

Does anyone think the well report of "drawdown @3.9" is the same as production @3.9. Does it sound like I might need an empty well sensor?

 

[Valveman]

Man for "not knowing squat" you are doing pretty good! Impellers coming apart like that could certainly be from running the pump dry. Cycling will usually get the capacitors and the motor. Just quick math using 6 GPM for half the day means you are averaging 3 GPM, and the well makes 3.9 GPM. But that is very close and the well may not be making as much as it did after drilling. I would think a dry run relay like the Cycle Sensor would be a good idea.

Also if you are pumping the well dry, you might consider bleeding some of the heat pump discharge to the primary well.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[hdude]

For as much as I have put into the replacement system components (still have pay to set the pump w/new wire) I guess that a little more investment into your "cycle sensor" may be justified. Realistically, can the CS1PH1-2HP be expected last 10-15 years? I don't want to have to replace the pump again and since I am getting old, don't want my grandkids I am raising to have to worry about it either.

Back to my question: is "drawdown to 130' @3.9" is the same as production @3.9? The well reports shows additional strata of water being produced (in sandstone) below that - Pump will be at 140'. Two years ago, I pumped the well filling up a 5000 gallon ABG pool in a day while running the GEO. Probably the only way to find out for sure is with the well sensor.

As far as putting some of the GEO discharge back into the well ... wouldn't that affect the efficiency of the system and create potential heat problems for the pump & motor? I'd bet that discharging into the windmill well improves the production of the primary well - giving time to neutralize the water's temperature. I might open up a thread on the GEO forum.

 

[Valveman]

Cycle Sensors last a long time. They are more analog than digital.

Standing column wells dump all the geo discharge back to the same well. Sometimes they have to "bleed" a little out to keep the temp correct. But they don't run out of water because they are circulating in the same well. You would only have to "bleed" in a little water to the primary well to keep it from pumping dry. For instance if you are using 4 GPM and the well only makes 3 GPM, you only have to bleed back 1 GPM to the primary well to keep the well from pumping dry. I doubt a small bleed like that would effect the water temp by much.

 

[hdude]

HoRah - Dug and Dug - found a Completion Report for the well. - It states the Well Test Pumping Capacity is 39GPM (noted as "Drilling Envirnoment"). The Drilling Log that that I thought was '3.9' GPM was actually a copy machine superfluous artifact between the 3 and 9. Wowser.

ValveMan: I think I will be changing my pressure setting from 50/30 to 60/40, maybe higher. I ordered the CSV1A & to be set to 45PSI. What would be the best initial guesstimate of number of turns inward to go to 55PSI? The Tank is already set to 35 PSI so I will leave it there for the time being. I've seen directions on changing the Pressure Switch and will review.

One more question - Shutoff Gate Valves vs Ball Valves. Advantages/Disadvantages. I had a 1 1/4 Gate valve I put inline on "T" to the PressureTank/Switch only - not inline from the pump to house.

 

[Valveman]

39 GPM is much better than 3.9 GPM.

One full turn of the adjustment bolt on the CSV1A is 14 PSI. So 10 PSI would be about 2/3rds of a turn.

 

[hdude]

Here is what the power usage looks line now that I have put in a new pump/motor CSV1A @58psi and 10 gallon pressure tank (60/40 pressure). And this setup now runs 2 houses.

 

[LLigetfa]

One more question - Shutoff Gate Valves vs Ball Valves.

Anyone that ever had a gate come free of the stem would not likely ever put in another gate valve. I absolutely hate them. Not only is there the risk of the gate getting stuck closed, they are also nearly impossible to see what degree of open/closed they are at. Ball valves FTW.