Problem With Delta 1700 Series New Installation

[Thomrose]

My question involves a Delta 1700 Series valve body and cartridge for a shower (no tub). I have installed a few of these in the past, always sweating them to copper. I have never had a problem with them before, and have installed them both as shower-only with a bottom plug (I put in a capped 3” length of copper pipe for the plug), and also as a tub/shower valve.

I know that I flushed the system immediately after this installation, and also installed the cartridge to set it up for maximum hot water flow, and to make sure there was a proper temperature range between hot and cold and that it all worked fine before I started tiling the shower. I did the tests by sending water from the shower head nipple into a bucket. I recall the water flow as being quite strong when I did these tests. I can’t imagine that I could not have noticed if the volume was poor.

Today, with the shower all tiled and grouted and sealed, I installed the escutcheon plate, valve handle, temp control knob, etc. Sending water up to the shower head nipple (no shower head installed), I get very poor water pressure. With a shower head installed to the pipe nipple, it is not sufficient pressure to qualify as a functional shower.

If I remove the valve cartridge, put in a test cap on the valve body and send water up to the shower head nipple that way, the water volume is much greater. And with a shower head put in place, the shower head does work “OK”, although it is not the best pressure I have seen.

So, do I fault the cartridge? There is definitely much greater pressure going to the shower head nipple without the cartridge in place, using the test cap. I might add that my valve body has built in shut-off screw valves, so I can alternately turn on just the cold water, hot water, or both when testing without the cartridge in place. I have the same volume flow from both hot and cold supply lines. Tomorrow I intend to hook a garden hose to the shower head nipple to backflow water through the system, to see how much water volume comes out of the open valve body, as well as to attempt to flush out anything that might be restricting the shower head inlet opening in the valve body.

If I am getting seriously less water volume using the cartridge than not using it, should I suspect that it is defective? Do 17oo series cartridges even have this sort of thing occur as a common problem?

 

[Jadnashua]

Did you have BOTH the hot and cold supplies open fully during your testing? IF not, try that. The pressure balance antiscald functionality will hamper the flow if both are not open and providing the same pressure from each supply. If you only have one side open, it can force the spool valve all the way to one end, and it might get stuck. Shouldn't happen on a new valve, but still possible.

 

[Sponsor]

 

[Thomrose]

I did have both supplies on. I ended up flushing the valve by attaching a garden hose at the shower head nipple. I had about two gallons of water into a bucket through the open valve body in 30 seconds, so flow seemed very good. This helped convince me I had not blocked the shower inlet/restrictor with solder, which was my primary concern. The cartridge worked much better after backflowing water through the valve body, so it could be that a piece of debris got washed out or maybe the cartridge just started operating like normal for some reason.

 

[Derf inator]

I have had this problem and have replaced the cartridge twice, and blown and vacuumed out (with a Shop Vac) the line from the valve to the shower head and to the tub spout (this is done [after the handle assembly, cartridge and shower head are removed] by attaching the vac hose to the shower spigot and closing off the tub spout with my other hand [which you should then feel a sucking effect on your hand] and vice versa. No luck. Almost no water pressure whatsoever. Barely even a trickle, worse that when I started troubleshooting.

I WILL NOW TELL YOU WHAT CORRECTS THE NO/EXTREMELY LOW PRESSURE, AND ALL YOUR FRUSTRATIONS WILL BE OVER!!!!!!!
First off, you have to be absolutely sure that there are no restrictions in any of the piping. You can check this by shutting off the cold and hot water supply lines to the tub and removing the handle assembly, and then the cartridge and the plastic gasket containing the 2 washer cups and springs, and the 2 o-rings from the valve (the washer cups, spings and O-rings are attached to this plastic gasket thing). This plastic gasket thingy is directly behind the cartridge in the valve and can be removed using a small set of pliers and pulling it out gently.

Next step, have someone turn on both the hot and cold water lines one at a time. You should get a steady blast of water coming out each line that will reach the back of the tub and the shower curtain. MAKE SURE you have the shower curtain/sliding glass door closed. Water will get all over your bathroom floor if not. If you get this blast of water, you should have no problems with clogged lines. Then shut the water off. Now the magic will start......
Locate the small tube/line in the rear center of the valve that faces up to the shower head. It will be in the middle hole, centered between the hot and cold water holes within the valve. It is brass and looks like a small tube that runs vertically. Get yourself a hammer and either a blunt ended chisel or punch. A flat head screwdriver works too. Next, place the end of your chisel or screwdriver right on to this little brass tube in the middle hole of the valve and give it 5 to 10 taps with the hammer. Not like you are hammering in a nail, but with just enough force as to not bend or puncture the tube. You may put a few nicks on the tube, but as long as it is not bent or ruptured, it'll be fine. What happens is there is calcified debris lodged in this tube/line that greatly restricts water pressure. Put all the parts back together and run the shower without the shower head attached in order to rinse out the debris. You should now have a shower and tub that will work like a gem. Put the plastic gasket and related parts, the cartridge, and the handle back on. Problem solved. If not, try doing it again. Remember when placing the cartridge back into the valve to have the stamped "Hot Side" on the left.

 

[Delta1700Fixed]

Derf inator: Thanks for your post. I had EXACTLY the same issue as Thomrose and I have been dealing with it for literally several years. The water pressure yesterday was SO low that it wouldn't even come out of the shower head and barely trickled out of the tub faucet. I was getting ready to call a professional to come out and replace the rough-in valve assembly (inside the wall) and the valve assembly (that fits in the rough-in valve) with a Moen. It seems that the Delta 1700 series has some design flaws that makes it easy for debris to block the tubes...especially that center vertical tube you were referring to.

After reading your post, I did just two things to fix my issue and it took me literally 10 minutes in all (after I had already spent about 10 hours working on this):

First, I removed the whole valve body so that I could see the vertical pipe you mentioned that is inside the top middle hole of the rough-in assembly. I tapped that vertical pipe about 20 to 30 times with a small flat blade screwdriver and a hammer. I didn't hit it really hard because I was afraid that I might puncture it. But I hit it with enough force to shake the pipe a bit.

Second, I removed the tub faucet (it just screws off counter clockwise). Then, I took a vacuum cleaner and I stuck it on the end of the bare pipe and cupped my hand around the edges to seal it off and to get a good vacuum between the rough-in valve assembly and the tub faucet.

While doing that, I also stuck my other hand over the hole where the valve body was removed to see if I was feeling good suction. Once I was convinced there was good suction between the tub faucet and the rough-in valve assembly, I put the whole thing back together and held my breath as I turned the knob. I was actually shocked...the water came POURING out from the tub faucet. I can't tell you how relieved I am to FINALLY get this fixed!

I CAN SHOWER AGAIN! Thanks for your post!

 

[Budget76]

Did you have BOTH the hot and cold supplies open fully during your testing? IF not, try that. The pressure balance antiscald functionality will hamper the flow if both are not open and providing the same pressure from each supply. If you only have one side open, it can force the spool valve all the way to one end, and it might get stuck. Shouldn't happen on a new valve, but still possible.

Very old post, but I want to quote this and rephrase it in layman's terms for others like me who may run into the same thing I did

The delta multi choice valve might, and in my case will not, allow water past with only the cold water turned on. I finished my bathroom, full pressure with test cap, nothing or a weak dribble with the mixing valve installed. Made no sense to me. Came to realize finally, after trying a new valve, that it was air locking itself or something. Ran out of things to try and opened the hot and cold both, and had full pressure. I had them both what I thought was open during the first setup but I have the service stops and must not have opened them far enough. Only cold was open and uneven pressure on the valve must make it not work